Episode 3: Real Talk on Sex Work

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000Disclaimer. This podcast features explicit language and discussion, sexual in nature.200:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,560It may contain subjects uncomfortable to some. Please understand the opinions shared on this300:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,520podcast are not a representation of any organization or employer the hosts may be a part of.400:00:18,720 --> 00:00:23,200It's a taste subject. It's pretty spicy, pretty juicy. We're talking about sex work.500:00:23,200 --> 00:00:30,560Which I think it's we need to again every time we are not experts, you know, we have no experience600:00:30,560 --> 00:00:37,120in this. We do have experience in this field. Do we? Do we have experience? Well, that's what700:00:37,120 --> 00:00:46,320I was getting into a little bit sex work just bad versus good. Right. Wait, like like superhero?800:00:46,320 --> 00:00:53,600No, not good versus evil. Like the dark side. Like I'm a sex superhuman. Can it be bad for people?900:00:53,600 --> 00:01:00,720Yeah. Or is it overall good for people? And I think honestly, I do have a very interesting1000:01:00,720 --> 00:01:09,920experience and side to this. I think I have experienced sex work in both areas being bad and1100:01:09,920 --> 00:01:21,760good. How so? Well, it starts off when I first started transitioning. I was in South in Florida.1200:01:21,760 --> 00:01:30,800So it's kind of rough. It's hard to get a job there when you're trans and you're not supremely1300:01:30,800 --> 00:01:36,480passable. And even if you are, if they do find out you're trans, it's very easy to lose your job.1400:01:36,480 --> 00:01:46,400Bye. Yeah, just find some arbitrary reason to fire you and be like, Well, you remember that time,1500:01:46,400 --> 00:01:51,360like three months ago, when you showed up like five minutes late, and it wasn't a big deal? Well,1600:01:51,360 --> 00:01:57,680it's a big deal today. So they give you some some kind of reason that's not related. Yeah,1700:01:57,680 --> 00:02:04,000that's our excuse. However, I whenever I started my transition, I lived in Panama City Beach,1800:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,160at the time, I'm sure you know, yes, still pretty, I think I was still talking to you at the time,1900:02:08,160 --> 00:02:14,800I was going through a situation where I didn't have really a home to go to. So I had a person2000:02:14,800 --> 00:02:22,320that I was dating at the time. And they offered to for me to move in with them in Pensacola. So I2100:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,600took up that chance. That was the only opportunity I saw that would be like not homeless, essentially.2200:02:27,600 --> 00:02:34,240So when I went there, I kind of was looking for a job again. You know, a pre transition me,2300:02:34,720 --> 00:02:40,320I could get a job, no problem. I get the interview, I knew I got the job. Like it was that easy.2400:02:41,360 --> 00:02:48,320After transitioning, getting a job was a nightmare. It was so hard. And it that's,2500:02:48,320 --> 00:02:54,560that's why I'm talking about, you know, this relating to sex work, because that's where it2600:02:54,560 --> 00:03:04,800led me to is I knew people that were in to escorting is what's called. And they were really2700:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,800good at it. They had been doing it for a lot of years. And they kind of took me under their wing2800:03:08,800 --> 00:03:14,560and told me about it and told me how to navigate. But at that time was back page Craigslist kind of2900:03:14,560 --> 00:03:23,360thing, which is very scary, very scary at the time. And I think it helped me develop into a3000:03:23,360 --> 00:03:32,240a very good escort. But overall, being an escort in Pensacola, Florida, as a trans woman is dangerous3100:03:32,240 --> 00:03:37,760and kind of really scary. I had a lot of good experiences. I met a lot of great people,3200:03:37,760 --> 00:03:44,800a lot of friendly people, a lot of closeted people, definitely was able to pay my bills,3300:03:44,800 --> 00:03:52,480you know, I'd never had an issue paying my bills. It did, it did affect me mentally, though,3400:03:52,480 --> 00:04:01,120because socially, it felt like it was unacceptable while I was doing to make money, but it was the3500:04:01,120 --> 00:04:07,280only thing that I knew that would make me guaranteed money. So quick question. Yeah. Was3600:04:07,280 --> 00:04:14,080this before like OnlyFans was a thing? Yeah, before OnlyFans was a thing. I didn't know at the time.3700:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,560I think there was like, I think FanCentro was like the main thing, but I didn't know that existed.3800:04:18,560 --> 00:04:25,200There were a few platforms out that were, you know, helpful to like market yourself and do like3900:04:26,240 --> 00:04:33,200work from your phone. Yeah. OnlyFans, I think blew up after we moved up here. Yeah.4000:04:34,480 --> 00:04:41,520Before I met her, I never knew about like the fact of putting yourself out online and only online,4100:04:41,520 --> 00:04:48,480and trying to work myself into the industry, which is, you know, the porn industry,4200:04:49,600 --> 00:04:57,440what many in society see as the professional scene. And I didn't think that was a hope for me.4300:04:57,440 --> 00:05:02,960So I just continued. And I was honestly, when you're escorting and you're making a lot of money,4400:05:02,960 --> 00:05:12,000the money is addicting. And also, you know, these clients, they have access to drugs, and4500:05:14,160 --> 00:05:20,960you can get easily addicted to stuff. And it's scary, because like they don't care. They just4600:05:20,960 --> 00:05:30,240want to give you money, use you for the money. And then, you know, they don't care about your4700:05:30,240 --> 00:05:37,200well being afterwards. And it's funny, because I have met a lot of clients that do actually care.4800:05:37,200 --> 00:05:42,560And it's almost weird, because they care too much. It's like they want to be involved in your life.4900:05:42,560 --> 00:05:50,240Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then that kind of goes back into that thing with like, are you dating,5000:05:50,240 --> 00:05:55,760or are they a client, you know, and you have to really make sure that that boundary is set with5100:05:55,760 --> 00:06:02,160people. Yeah. Some people feel like like they are dating, even though even though you met them5200:06:02,160 --> 00:06:07,840through client work. They're like, they still think that there's a chance to date you like.5300:06:09,280 --> 00:06:12,800And it's like, no, we don't date our clients, you know? Yeah. Did you have a question?5400:06:13,520 --> 00:06:22,480Yeah. When you were an escort, did you take drugs to try to like help cope with your current5500:06:22,480 --> 00:06:30,560situation? At first, I did it. It probably is helpful to people that are going through this,5600:06:30,560 --> 00:06:37,440what what I was on, I was on opiates, painkillers, over the counter painkillers. And they're offered5700:06:37,440 --> 00:06:44,000to me by someone that had access to them. And at first, I was doing them because it helped numb5800:06:44,000 --> 00:06:50,960me to what was going on at the moment when I was doing my work. Yeah. And then eventually, I've5900:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,280kind of just craved that numbness because it just it just took me out of that.6000:06:56,240 --> 00:07:01,040Out of that mindset of like, holy shit, this is what I'm doing with my life kind of thing.6100:07:01,680 --> 00:07:12,400Is it like, because of the way people portray sex workers, no matter what you're doing as sex work,6200:07:12,400 --> 00:07:22,720it's really hard on the sex worker, really hard. And it makes you feel like when you want to have6300:07:22,720 --> 00:07:28,080protections and rights that you're just like, you're being unfair or something, like you shouldn't6400:07:28,080 --> 00:07:34,640be asking for these kind of things as a as a working person in society, doing probably,6500:07:34,640 --> 00:07:43,200you know, the the job that no one really wants to do, you know. Nobody wants to escort really.6600:07:44,160 --> 00:07:49,200I mean, I am sure there's plenty of people that would love to do it. I mean, like people do. But6700:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,280a lot of the girls that are doing this, a lot of the people that are doing this are doing it because6800:07:53,280 --> 00:08:00,080they need the money, or they they're sinking something that they need to pay for. Or, you6900:08:00,080 --> 00:08:05,440know, there's a site for you that just do it because it's it's great. It's fun. Too many people7000:08:05,440 --> 00:08:13,440turn to it because they need to. Yes. Which was my experience. And it made it a bad one. Because7100:08:14,080 --> 00:08:24,000through it, I met, like I said, my good clients and I met people that are scary, that took advantage7200:08:24,000 --> 00:08:40,400of me. And one of my clients did actually rape me. And it's hard to talk about still because I didn't7300:08:40,400 --> 00:08:47,200I wasn't really accepting of the fact that like I always saw myself as a really strong person. I7400:08:47,200 --> 00:08:55,120couldn't I would never let that happen to me. But when I was in the moment, I just I just saw him7500:08:55,120 --> 00:09:03,040as like, he's paying for this, like, he has to get what he wants. But real in real reality, if this7600:09:03,040 --> 00:09:11,920was my career, and I had safety things in place, if I said no, it'd be no, the money would be7700:09:11,920 --> 00:09:17,840returned, everything would be kosher, it would be good, it'd be fine. But because of there no,7800:09:19,120 --> 00:09:25,280there's no safety, there's no checks being happened, there's no one making sure that the7900:09:25,280 --> 00:09:34,080worker is okay. That like, I just felt like I couldn't say no. And then not only did I8000:09:34,080 --> 00:09:43,840get, you know, taken advantage of, but I had to ride home in this man's car, and think about my8100:09:43,840 --> 00:09:50,000decision that I made, or the decision I thought I made, and think about like what happened and sit8200:09:50,000 --> 00:09:57,600with it. And it was really, just really eye opening.8300:09:57,600 --> 00:10:09,520So you told the guy like, no, yeah, without being super descriptive. He had a really,8400:10:10,560 --> 00:10:18,560he had a really big thing. And he wanted to do penetration. And I said, it would hurt me.8500:10:18,560 --> 00:10:29,520And I said no. And he just kind of like talked to me, he was like, let me just try it. And I let him try it.8600:10:29,520 --> 00:10:35,920And I said, no, it hurts too much. And it just happened anyway. And it hurt really bad.8700:10:37,200 --> 00:10:46,960And I did cry during it. I kind of suppress the whole memory a lot, because it's hard to think8800:10:46,960 --> 00:10:54,240about sometimes. But I feel like it's definitely important to talk about because I'm not the only one8900:10:54,240 --> 00:11:01,200who that's happened to. Because like, it's not okay for it to happen at all. Even if you're9000:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,200doing the work, you know, some people are like, well, you're doing the work you're asking for.9100:11:05,200 --> 00:11:11,200But that's the problem right there. It's like that statement. That mentality, that mentality.9200:11:11,200 --> 00:11:19,360Yeah, I had noticed throughout our relationship that, you know, you sometimes struggled with9300:11:20,240 --> 00:11:29,040intimacy and vulnerability. And I had asked you actually at one point, you know, had something9400:11:29,040 --> 00:11:37,440like that happened. And, you know, for the longest time, it kind of felt like you kind of just blocked9500:11:37,440 --> 00:11:43,040that out. Because you told me no, no, then nothing like that's ever happened. Like it felt like you9600:11:43,040 --> 00:11:51,520believed that about yourself. Yeah. Well, I mean, it was really hard to accept to just to think that9700:11:51,520 --> 00:12:01,600I let someone take advantage of me. Like, oh, like I said, I always thought I had really high walls,9800:12:01,600 --> 00:12:08,240and I was really strong. And, you know, I would never let that happen to me. It's not it's not9900:12:08,240 --> 00:12:15,360okay. And it's and it's not okay to ever feel like it's okay that they did that.10000:12:19,200 --> 00:12:24,800And it should be talked about more. I'm sure there's a lot more girls like myself that are trans,10100:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,160that have had this happen to them that don't deal with it, that don't talk about it, that think it's10200:12:30,160 --> 00:12:37,440okay. I think while it was part of the job is just my job. You know, and that's that's10300:12:38,320 --> 00:12:45,280some of the bad things about sex work is like, for me, like, with that experience, and and just,10400:12:46,640 --> 00:12:54,160you know, seeing clients, mostly men for money, it just ruined my idea of a relationship with a guy.10500:12:54,160 --> 00:13:00,240And it made it really a struggle to like, have a relationship with the guy. And that's what10600:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,200it's essentially what when I eventually met Nikki, we we've always talked about polyamory at the10700:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,600beginning, and we always wanted to have a guy in our relationship, and it made it a real struggle.10800:13:10,320 --> 00:13:20,320Because seeing I what I say is like the dirty side of things on like the the naughty things that guys10900:13:20,320 --> 00:13:27,120things that guys want for just money and seeing how some of them treat women for when it's just11000:13:27,120 --> 00:13:33,280coming down to sex and money. It's, it's disgusting. It's hard not to think of men as animals.11100:13:33,840 --> 00:13:40,160Yeah, because of that sometimes. But but on the other side, I have met a handful of of gentlemen11200:13:40,160 --> 00:13:46,880that are actual gentlemen, they treat it like you're doing a job, you're a professional, they11300:13:46,880 --> 00:13:55,120they treat you like the woman that you want to be treated, they they treat it like a professional11400:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,840like transaction when it comes to the money. It's professional. When it comes to the date,11500:13:59,840 --> 00:14:06,640it's very, very romantic and very, like they take you out to dinner, they shower you with compliments,11600:14:06,640 --> 00:14:12,080sometimes they get your gifts, and it's very sweet. And when it comes down to like, physical contact,11700:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,240it's it's all about consent with them. They don't feel comfortable unless they're getting that11800:14:16,240 --> 00:14:21,200consent unless they're having that closeness and building a kind of like a relationship beforehand.11900:14:21,840 --> 00:14:29,360And that and those that kind of relationship that is what I see the good side of escorting like that12000:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,560can that can happen all the time. You vet these guys out, you vet these people out that want to12100:14:34,560 --> 00:14:41,360be clients that you vet your clientele out through background checks, security checks, you know,12200:14:41,360 --> 00:14:48,320verifying their ID, you're making sure that they make a certain income or something. You're securing12300:14:48,320 --> 00:14:57,360yourself into possibly not getting screwed over, not getting hurt, you know. And like, and like to12400:14:57,360 --> 00:15:04,400have a system put in place where other sex workers can just go and look and be like, well, that guy12500:15:04,400 --> 00:15:11,520did this. Don't ever see that guy. This person did this. Don't ever see that person, you know, would12600:15:11,520 --> 00:15:22,320be would be that's how black lives get formed. So yeah. And yeah, so escorting came with a lot of12700:15:22,320 --> 00:15:31,680lot of negatives. And a lot of positives. It really it hindered my self esteem a little bit,12800:15:31,680 --> 00:15:39,120but it boosted it to a height that I couldn't even explain. Like I felt so remarkably good about my12900:15:39,120 --> 00:15:46,800looks as far as transitioning in a very early period of my transition as well. So I can't say13000:15:46,800 --> 00:15:54,560any negatives about that. But I'm glad I'm out of it. I'm glad that I did meet my wife, Nikki.13100:15:54,560 --> 00:16:02,080She introduced me to what is I think the good side of sex work, which is just content creation, porn,13200:16:02,560 --> 00:16:08,960you know, making videos, live streaming kind of thing. It's it's a whole different world.13300:16:09,760 --> 00:16:15,840And I never say don't escort like I think I think that's a great experience to you meet so13400:16:15,840 --> 00:16:21,520many fucking people you meet. And if you know what you're doing, you know how to talk to people,13500:16:21,520 --> 00:16:26,800you can meet some wonderful people you can network with people. It's a great thing. But13600:16:27,760 --> 00:16:33,680I say, if you're escorting, you must be doing the video online thing too. You have to be doing it13700:16:33,680 --> 00:16:41,360in turn with it because you're just going to make more money. Yeah, and, and it's just what the13800:16:41,360 --> 00:16:47,440online thing is more of like, it feels more of like a person like a boost in your self esteem,13900:16:47,440 --> 00:16:53,040self esteem, because you don't see like, like when there's a negative comment, it doesn't affect me14000:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,520as much as hearing a negative comment coming out of someone's mouth in front of me, you know, like,14100:16:58,480 --> 00:17:04,800well, I also know, a lot of girls, I personally know a lot of girls that they do escorting,14200:17:04,800 --> 00:17:12,400and they don't want an internet persona. They want they would like to reserve time for when they're14300:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,760done doing sex work. They could continue life and not be recognized in places, you know,14400:17:17,760 --> 00:17:25,840yeah, that's fine. I totally understand that. Yeah. And yeah, since everybody has a different14500:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,920experience, everybody has different goals in these sorts of things, I don't want to make it sound like14600:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,760what are you doing? You're not on the internet, you know? Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, definitely not. But14700:17:35,760 --> 00:17:43,040it just goes back to like, how society perceives sex work, which is just the problem. It's really14800:17:43,040 --> 00:17:50,400the big problem is just how taboo sex work is period. Yeah, like, how taboo sex is period.14900:17:51,360 --> 00:17:56,080It's sad that we have to have that conversation, because I feel like people shouldn't have to be15000:17:56,080 --> 00:18:02,640ashamed of having done sex work, you know, point in their life, like, yeah, like this, what you hear15100:18:02,640 --> 00:18:09,120it all the time, the oldest professions, the oldest profession out there, you know, people sold their15200:18:09,120 --> 00:18:19,520bodies, it's it's not that alien of a concept. You know, even talking about this makes me feel ashamed.15300:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,800Well, you shouldn't, shouldn't feel ashamed. I made lots of money.15400:18:24,800 --> 00:18:32,720I made lots of money. And I met I did meet some really cool people. I've met some of them. Yeah,15500:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,840I met she's she kept in contact with some of these people. Some of them are genuinely nice people.15600:18:37,840 --> 00:18:44,640I've actually met some of them. I've met a sailor. I've met a brain surgeon. I met a pilot pilot.15700:18:44,640 --> 00:18:51,600I've met all kinds of people from all different kinds of walks of life. Crazy. Yeah. I think it's15800:18:51,600 --> 00:18:58,720it's it's funny because like, funny that I'm doing podcasts now, because they one of the main things15900:18:58,720 --> 00:19:05,840that many of my clients would say to me is that they love talking to me. And sometimes, rare occasion,16000:19:06,320 --> 00:19:12,080a client would pay me. And all we would do is sit there and talk, have an intellectual conversation,16100:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,440because I'm so engaging, I guess, in conversation. And honestly, they are so engaging, too. It's,16200:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,280I love hearing about people's lives. You can let me you can sell different types of intimacy,16300:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,360not all intimacy is physical for some people. Yeah. And that's that's one thing I learned16400:19:27,360 --> 00:19:34,000through escorting is that not all intimacy is physical. It's not all sexual. Like, some people16500:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,040just want to engage in conversation. Some people just want to snuggle with that engaging conversation.16600:19:39,040 --> 00:19:45,840You know, yeah. Some people just want to go out to dinner, talk, have some nice wine. That's about16700:19:45,840 --> 00:19:54,640it. And it's it's fantastic to meet meet those kind of people, honestly. But yeah, for me,16800:19:55,440 --> 00:20:04,400sex work, good versus bad. For me, it's been both. It's been a good mixture of both. It's started off16900:20:05,440 --> 00:20:13,040kind of good, got rough, real, real rough. And then I met you. And that kind of changed my whole17000:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,840outlook on sex work, because I was at a very negative space with it. Yeah, I think when I met17100:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,680you, you were done. You're like, yeah, I wasn't even interested in putting myself online anymore,17200:20:23,680 --> 00:20:33,040because I just I had like started on Instagram and I was live streaming on one of the cam sites.17300:20:33,040 --> 00:20:41,680And I wasn't doing too well. I was still doing escorting full time. And I just was getting sick17400:20:41,680 --> 00:20:47,840of it. And I was trying to find a job again, basically. And then I met her and she was like,17500:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,640put yourself out there. You're hot. And it kind of built because my self-esteem at that point was17600:20:52,640 --> 00:20:58,560just like shut down. And then she built me back up again. She helped me build it back up again.17700:20:59,360 --> 00:21:04,320And yeah, that's my that's my personal relationship with sex. I'm sure a lot of17800:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,120people have the same experience, you know,17900:21:07,120 --> 00:21:15,120maybe even worse. And I just hope the best for them, because it's a struggle. It's a struggle.18000:21:17,440 --> 00:21:17,920It is.18100:21:20,240 --> 00:21:26,720And you've gone places. Yeah. Look at you now. You're on a you're on a well-known podcast.18200:21:27,520 --> 00:21:32,080You know, how did you get this gig? Actually, kudos to you. It's because I like to talk.18300:21:32,080 --> 00:21:40,000Yeah. That's sex work. Sex work. Sex work, bad versus good. Yeah, it kind of relates to me because18400:21:41,200 --> 00:21:48,080I think I've had experience on both sides. But speaking of sex work, didn't she put out a feeler18500:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,840for questions? I did put out a feeler for sex work questions. I can18600:21:53,840 --> 00:21:59,840I'm wondering what kind of responses we got. Let me check my gram. I put out because I like to ask18700:21:59,840 --> 00:22:06,000if people like to ask questions and stuff periodically. So fun, fun, fun. Yeah. Good way to18800:22:06,000 --> 00:22:15,600interact with us, I guess. So let's see. We have here. I love you. Okay. That's a question.18900:22:15,600 --> 00:22:23,200Where's the podcast available? Where is the podcast available, Jay? Everywhere. Everywhere?19000:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,520Everywhere. Just drop a few names of places you can find them.19100:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,000Well, it's located here and there.19200:22:34,080 --> 00:22:39,840Well, I know we plan on putting the video out there. But I'm not sure if we can do that.19300:22:39,840 --> 00:22:48,000And year in there. Well, I know we plan on putting the video and the audio component on YouTube.19400:22:48,000 --> 00:22:55,360Correct. There's Spotify, I guess when you when you upload the RSS feed, it just goes to Spotify.19500:22:55,360 --> 00:23:01,760I plead the fifth. Okay, well, we'll do some research. But if there is a space where you19600:23:02,400 --> 00:23:08,800are listening to podcasts already, we'll be on there. We're just prepare yourself. We're19700:23:08,800 --> 00:23:14,480gonna get there. Anywhere you can find a podcast. We will include the links down below. Yes,19800:23:14,480 --> 00:23:20,720down below or above. If you're watching a different kind of thing, links everywhere.19900:23:20,720 --> 00:23:28,800We also have some actual relevant questions here as well. We have we have at what age20000:23:29,600 --> 00:23:36,240did you get into sex work? Oh, well, for me, I got into sex work.20100:23:36,240 --> 00:23:47,680I started transitioning 24. No, 25. I got into sex work. 26. 26 years old. I mean, obviously,20200:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,000you know, when I got into it, I wasn't telling my clients I was 26. But you know, I was actually20300:23:54,000 --> 00:24:02,80026 when I got into it. What you lied about your age. Oh, come on. I look younger. Yeah, I did too.20400:24:02,800 --> 00:24:15,200I actually started getting into sex work at 27. I'm 34 now. So y'all can do that math. I20500:24:17,600 --> 00:24:23,120I got into it at a difficult time in my life. I you know, I was transitioning in the military.20600:24:23,120 --> 00:24:35,360And I the friends that I thought that I had, I no longer had. So the the large group of people20700:24:35,360 --> 00:24:42,800that I would normally go to for things and help was non existent. And all that I had available to20800:24:42,800 --> 00:24:53,040me were trans people that I knew that were into sex work. Yeah. And those were my friends. So I20900:24:53,040 --> 00:25:03,040started interacting in that community. And I got in the military anymore. So here I am. Much21000:25:03,040 --> 00:25:10,560happier. A lot more friends now. So much happier with the the real people in my life that I have21100:25:10,560 --> 00:25:19,840today. So here's another one on our list. Do your parents know? How do they feel about it?21200:25:22,880 --> 00:25:29,680My I don't think even my parents know. Actually. Really? Yeah, we just don't I don't have that21300:25:29,680 --> 00:25:36,080closeness with my parents. I think my dad might know like I have a suspicion maybe. Yeah, and21400:25:36,080 --> 00:25:43,200I don't think he cares. He's very much in his own world still. Oh, actually, my mom does know.21500:25:43,200 --> 00:25:51,840And I have no idea how she feels about it. Really? I did tell her. Yeah. Okay. And this is my mother21600:25:51,840 --> 00:25:59,840that I think also had done sex work type stuff at one point in her life. So according according to21700:25:59,840 --> 00:26:06,400your father. According to my father. Yeah. So I'm not sure how they feel. And I'm not sure if they21800:26:06,400 --> 00:26:12,160actually remember or know. So that's my answer for them. Or care. Or care. Yeah, they probably don't21900:26:12,160 --> 00:26:24,960care. For me, my my mom definitely knows I've not in great detail, but she you know, she she's she22000:26:24,960 --> 00:26:36,080she has an idea. She knows that I do sex work. She knows that I'm much happier in my position in life22100:26:36,080 --> 00:26:47,680and she's happy for me. I don't know if she's like, Yay, you're doing porn, but she does feel good22200:26:47,680 --> 00:26:56,000that I am am happy and I'm being safe. And I'm carrying out these things in a professional manner.22300:26:56,000 --> 00:27:04,640She she's happy for me. Yeah, your mom does seem very like open and accepting. Yeah, it's it's more22400:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,840of like, it's more like she's she's not going to be at the front of the parade holding the banners22500:27:09,840 --> 00:27:16,560for me like doing porn. But she's she's got your back. She definitely has my back. My parents do22600:27:16,560 --> 00:27:24,000not know that I have a podcast. That's not it's not me keeping a secret or anything like that.22700:27:24,960 --> 00:27:33,360Both my parents have passed away now. My mother has it's been about a couple of months now since22800:27:33,360 --> 00:27:41,040she passed. She was actually a sex worker. Oh, wow. Yes. Before I was born, I guess,22900:27:41,040 --> 00:27:49,920listening to your stories, I come from obviously like the different side of sex work.23000:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,520So my mother was a she was a stripper and my father was a police officer.23100:27:58,400 --> 00:28:04,480From my from my understanding, that's from my understanding that you were born in a porno.23200:28:04,480 --> 00:28:19,680You're born in a porno. So yeah, I guess I guess maybe possibly. But yeah, that's my understanding23300:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,640is that's how my father and my mother met. My mother was a stripper and my father was a police23400:28:24,640 --> 00:28:37,440officer. Unfortunately, things did not work out between the two of them. We kept on our arrestor23500:28:37,440 --> 00:28:44,480and get probably got awkward. After a while. We can't stop meeting like this. Conflict of interest.23600:28:44,480 --> 00:28:53,840No, I think as a grown up looking back onto it, kind of listening to you two share your stories.23700:28:54,880 --> 00:29:03,040I believe my mother, she enjoyed the rush of it. I think she enjoyed like the self-esteem boost from it.23800:29:03,040 --> 00:29:13,760And she definitely enjoyed the party lifestyle and the drugs of it. When things did not work out23900:29:13,760 --> 00:29:26,640between my mother and my father, I was very, very young. And I feel like her, her history in sex24000:29:26,640 --> 00:29:35,200work was kind of weaponized against her. So during the divorce, my dad got full custody of me. He,24100:29:35,200 --> 00:29:42,480he used to be a police officer. He had a kind of a little bit of a violent history.24200:29:42,480 --> 00:29:54,640So I was raised in somewhat of a abusive household, you could say. Instead of being raised by someone24300:29:54,640 --> 00:30:02,000who had a history of being a sex worker. But that was like, that was the thing though was,24400:30:02,800 --> 00:30:08,880she's unfit because she's a sex worker. And I was raised in a kind of a violent24500:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,440household. So that was the thing though was, yeah, she's unfit because she's a sex worker.24600:30:13,440 --> 00:30:21,120And I think growing up in the South, that was, my father and I, we definitely struggled a lot growing24700:30:21,120 --> 00:30:33,520up, but everything that would go wrong in our life. So for instance, we were, we were both homeless.24800:30:33,520 --> 00:30:39,200When I was in the second grade for like a short period of time, we were living out of a car. And I24900:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,480just remember kind of being conditioned, like looking back, I can see it. Like I was conditioned25000:30:44,480 --> 00:30:54,560to hate her, right? Like, and everything growing up, for instance, we moved from place to place to25100:30:54,560 --> 00:31:01,600place in Florida. I remember one time we put all of our belongings in a storage shed because we had25200:31:01,600 --> 00:31:07,360to like, we were being evicted out of one place and had to move to the next. And somebody broke in and25300:31:07,360 --> 00:31:13,760like stole all of our stuff, like cleared it out. And I just remember all these things, like I would25400:31:13,760 --> 00:31:20,880be so angry and so mad at my mother who had like nothing to do with it. But that's how I was25500:31:20,880 --> 00:31:29,680conditioned. And also being conditioned, like I did go to church twice a week. Sex work was bad.25600:31:29,680 --> 00:31:37,200It was a sin. Yeah. And is that what they're saying? That's what they said. Wow. Harsh.25700:31:37,200 --> 00:31:45,680And it just, it was like, I remember just thinking like, okay, my, you know, my mother chose to live25800:31:46,480 --> 00:31:56,320this sinful lifestyle than try to be a mother to me. And I just, I grew up hating her because I25900:31:56,320 --> 00:32:03,680would blame her for everything. I would be, I don't have like the nicest shoes or I'm, you know, I'm26000:32:03,680 --> 00:32:10,480like, I have like holes in my shoes because of my mother. We lost everything because of my mother.26100:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,120We're being evicted again because of my mother. And it was, you know, as an adult, I look back,26200:32:15,120 --> 00:32:23,280my mother had like nothing to do with that at all. But I guess the thing, again, this relates back to26300:32:23,280 --> 00:32:34,480sex workers because I was placed in a abusive household and I don't, I don't want to like sound26400:32:34,480 --> 00:32:42,880like a victim or anything. I am who I am today because of what I went through. I wouldn't be who26500:32:42,880 --> 00:32:50,880I am without me going through that. I completely understand that. I did not have a relationship26600:32:50,880 --> 00:33:01,120with my mother, I think, because I was, I had such a big stigmatism against sex work from an early age.26700:33:02,080 --> 00:33:08,320And my mother, after my father passed away, my mother did reach out to me. She did want to form26800:33:08,320 --> 00:33:16,160a relationship. It was very, keep in mind, this was after college, different states that we lived in26900:33:16,160 --> 00:33:24,160entirely. She lived in Michigan, lived out here in Washington. So time zone difference. She did try27000:33:24,160 --> 00:33:30,560to form a relationship with me before she passed away. And it was just something that was very odd27100:33:31,360 --> 00:33:38,480to me, you know, like at this stage in my life, like what am I going to do with this person that27200:33:38,480 --> 00:33:45,040thinks she's my mother, kind of. I know that sounds harsh. No, I totally understand.27300:33:45,040 --> 00:33:54,400And looking back on it, I do wish that I did spend the time to get to know her better27400:33:57,840 --> 00:34:06,000because looking back at both my father and my mother, I was a lot more like my mother27500:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,040than I ever was my father. And unfortunately, the only one that I knew was my father.27600:34:11,040 --> 00:34:23,280Yeah. Sorry about that. Yeah, it's okay. That's unfortunately, like, that's you being affected27700:34:23,280 --> 00:34:29,280by society's negative astigmatism around sex work. Like you directly being influenced by that,27800:34:29,280 --> 00:34:35,840your family, essentially. Yeah, I. And it's not even like the full extent of sex work is27900:34:35,840 --> 00:34:43,680stripping. And that's not at its extreme either. That's just. Yeah, like stripping is more broadly28000:34:43,680 --> 00:34:52,640accepted as like an acceptable form of sex work more so than like escorting porn, you know.28100:34:53,680 --> 00:35:00,320Yeah, I remember my mother speaking to me a couple of years ago where, you know, she and again,28200:35:00,320 --> 00:35:06,080I don't know how much of this is true, right. But she did tell me she's like, you know, I28300:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,880I was just a stripper. She's like, it was completely different back in the 80s.28400:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,800She's like, oh, yeah, girls, girls nowadays, they'll do anything for, for tips and stuff.28500:35:16,800 --> 00:35:24,080And she's like, it wasn't like that back when I did it. So I just think it's kind of interesting.28600:35:24,080 --> 00:35:34,240I was placed, the person that I got full custody of me ended up getting full custody of me, I think28700:35:34,240 --> 00:35:41,360primarily because of sex work. And I will say because of like drug use, but my dad also did28800:35:41,360 --> 00:35:48,080drugs. So yeah, you know, it's kind of like what. But the dynamic there you have, you have a28900:35:48,080 --> 00:35:55,440someone with law enforcement background. Yeah. You know, and typically females do get custody.29000:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,080Like it's it's usually difficult, but you know, in your father's situation,29100:36:03,040 --> 00:36:10,720then she didn't have a chance. Ironically, my mother's side of the family is the side that had29200:36:10,720 --> 00:36:18,480all the money. Her father, my grandfather on that side, he was a very successful29300:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,360engineer that got into29400:36:25,600 --> 00:36:33,280executive levels of a very successful, very wealthy company. She had the funds and the money.29500:36:33,280 --> 00:36:41,520I think I think they turned their back on her when she went into sex work or stripping. So29600:36:42,960 --> 00:36:48,560I feel like they could have easily kind of threw money around and29700:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,640probably would have got like full custody of me, because like you said, the mother typically does.29800:36:55,600 --> 00:37:01,840But because maybe she didn't have the money, she didn't have the money to do the sex work.29900:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,480Because maybe she didn't have that support of her family because of her profession.30000:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,560And because like you said, like it's a law enforcement officer fighting for custody.30100:37:13,360 --> 00:37:19,840And again, I don't I don't know how my life would be different. If my mother had full custody,30200:37:20,880 --> 00:37:27,440maybe I would have came from a family that had a lot of money. Maybe I never would have went30300:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,320to college because I would have been like, what's the point? Yeah, I'm rich. I'm rich. And30400:37:32,880 --> 00:37:39,120I think everything that I did in college, like building homeless houses for homeless veterans,30500:37:39,120 --> 00:37:47,520sorry, building houses for homeless veterans, that was part of me. That was something that was very30600:37:47,520 --> 00:37:55,520important to me. And that was me kind of giving back to society, if you will, because that was30700:37:55,520 --> 00:38:03,200something I know what it's like to not have a home. I know what it's like to kind of be struggling.30800:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,800So like I'm now in a place where I can help people. So let me go back and help.30900:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,720Point of the podcast too. Kind of kind of the point of the podcast.31000:38:12,720 --> 00:38:14,160Yeah. Education.31100:38:16,720 --> 00:38:22,880I personally think I think your mom would be happy to know that you're putting positive31200:38:22,880 --> 00:38:30,560information out there about things pertaining to her line of work, her profession.31300:38:30,560 --> 00:38:38,320Yeah, I think she would. I'm definitely following more in my mother's side of her footsteps than my31400:38:38,320 --> 00:38:43,360father's. My father would probably not like the podcast at all. And he would have been31500:38:43,360 --> 00:38:58,720probably super judgmental about it. And I think again, knowing people that are into,31600:38:59,520 --> 00:39:10,560like in the sex work industry, it often does not, like I often think like31700:39:10,560 --> 00:39:17,360this was probably just like my mother, right? Like when she was young, wild and crazy and31800:39:18,160 --> 00:39:28,080kind of free love spirited. And I, you can call it like a conflict of interest if you want, but31900:39:28,080 --> 00:39:38,160I think for me, I've realized sex workers aren't bad. They're very loving and caring people.32000:39:38,160 --> 00:39:45,120They're just like everyone else. There's nothing necessarily wrong with them.32100:39:46,720 --> 00:39:52,880Yeah. Yeah. We're all humans. Yeah. It's crazy. It's weird.32200:39:52,880 --> 00:40:02,800We try to be. Any more questions?32300:40:03,440 --> 00:40:10,480Oh, no. I mean, there's a lot of questions here, but they're mostly like,32400:40:10,480 --> 00:40:18,160please send me more feet pics. Interesting. Yeah. So I believe we have32500:40:18,160 --> 00:40:23,600kink jar. Oh yeah. Kink jar word of the day. Kink jar word of the day.32600:40:23,600 --> 00:40:28,400We need a sound effect. There's like, oh, we're going to sing. We should do that. Kink jar word32700:40:28,400 --> 00:40:35,200of the day with Jay. Actually that's pretty good. And so we could sing it would be great.32800:40:35,200 --> 00:40:44,080Yeah. Kink jar word of the day with Jay. Okay. It's official. Okay. I can literally32900:40:44,080 --> 00:40:52,080take that and that just, because she said it with the microphone. Oh my God. I can't take it back.33000:40:53,920 --> 00:41:00,160So what's the kinky word of the day? Oh, okay. So self-collering.33100:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,280What the hell is that? Self-collering. Is it exactly what it sounds like?33200:41:05,920 --> 00:41:11,760Yeah. I mean, yeah. Okay. That's it. That's it. That completes the word of the day. There we go.33300:41:11,760 --> 00:41:18,560That's it. So self-collering is what it sounds like. I've heard the word33400:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,840collar. Yeah. And I've heard the word self. Never heard the word self-collering before.33500:41:23,840 --> 00:41:34,400Please explain. I'm very captivated right now. So typically in BDSM, a collar represents ownership.33600:41:34,400 --> 00:41:42,560Right. Yeah. There's even collar, collaring ceremonies. Wow. That's kind of like a marriage33700:41:42,560 --> 00:41:50,800thing. It can be as in-depth as you want or as the dom and sub wants it to be. Why am I so extremely33800:41:50,800 --> 00:41:58,160interested in this? It sounds so cool. Typically you have to earn your collar, right? Oh, wow.33900:41:58,160 --> 00:42:04,640It's not like a, oh, hey, we just met. Will you collar me? It's a long ongoing process.34000:42:07,040 --> 00:42:16,080Self-collering is kind of like the other side of that where instead of a dominant giving you a34100:42:16,080 --> 00:42:26,480collar, you are putting a collar on yourself. But who's... Okay. So like self-ownership?34200:42:26,480 --> 00:42:34,400Yeah. Or is that like indicating to other doms that like, hey, I'm not owned and you can own me?34300:42:35,040 --> 00:42:41,200So no. That would just be like you not wearing a collar. And this is where it could kind of get a34400:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,320little confusing inside the community. Because if someone sees a collar, they're going to be like,34500:42:46,320 --> 00:42:55,200oh, okay, so you're owned. And then it's like, oh, no, I'm not. But for instance, I am self-collared.34600:42:55,200 --> 00:43:01,520That's what this little guy right here is from Eternity Collars. I think I covered it a couple.34700:43:01,520 --> 00:43:08,400You've mentioned it before. Yeah. So that was, I will say a lot of people do self-collering for34800:43:08,400 --> 00:43:20,320different reasons. For me, this was my way of... It was like a statement to society. Like I am kinky.34900:43:20,320 --> 00:43:25,200I am submissive. Like this is who I am. Oh, okay. And it was like me putting it out there. Do you35000:43:25,200 --> 00:43:31,600think for other people in the BDSM community that they do the same thing? Like they self-collar with35100:43:31,600 --> 00:43:37,120different things than just a normal collar, just to state like, hey, I am kinky. This is my lifestyle.35200:43:37,120 --> 00:43:44,960This is what I enjoy. Yeah. I do think a lot of people do it. I think it's a way to express35300:43:44,960 --> 00:43:55,280who you are and try to show people that it's normal. A lot of people do wear the Eternity35400:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,480Collars on their wrists or even on their ankles because it's just more professional. Yeah. So35500:44:01,200 --> 00:44:06,000I mean, if I went to work with a collar around my neck, they would be like... I can't imagine.35600:44:06,000 --> 00:44:11,280Why? Why is that a ground part? You go into an office job and you have this thing around your neck.35700:44:11,280 --> 00:44:17,840I don't even know how to open this one. Your boss comes by in a latex gimp suit and just leashes35800:44:17,840 --> 00:44:23,440you and is like, come here. You did bad things. It spanks you in the office. So for me, it's more...35900:44:23,440 --> 00:44:30,480Typical business environment. Yeah. It's a normal Tuesday. Normal Tuesday. So yeah, for me,36000:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,440it's just like me expressing essentially who I am. Oh, okay.36100:44:35,440 --> 00:44:42,560Yeah. I did it. I self-collared myself. Is this how you do it?36200:44:44,480 --> 00:44:50,480So the confusing aspects... I know Nick is being distracting. The confusing aspects as far as like,36300:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,680I could see how it would be confusing for people that are in those dominant sub-relationships36400:44:55,680 --> 00:45:04,080that are used to seeing only owned subs being collared. So is that like a commonly mistaken36500:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,880thing is like when someone's self-collaring, they get a lot of questions like, oh, you owned...36600:45:08,880 --> 00:45:14,640Like you were mentioning that. You're unavailable. Is self-collaring common when it comes to like36700:45:15,200 --> 00:45:21,760a collar that you wear around your neck? Because I feel like that more so dignifies like ownership.36800:45:22,800 --> 00:45:30,960So not entirely... Try to break down your questions. Not entirely sure how common36900:45:30,960 --> 00:45:36,480self-collaring is. I know for instance, like if you go to YouTube and you type in self-collaring,37000:45:36,480 --> 00:45:42,880you're going to find YouTube videos by other content creators out there that are explaining what it is.37100:45:46,080 --> 00:45:52,160Confusing... It can be confusing. However, for example, there was recently a dungeon party year37200:45:52,160 --> 00:46:03,600in Seattle and they have dungeon parties very often, but for this specific one, we can definitely37300:46:03,600 --> 00:46:08,320probably get you hooked up with that. Yeah, we'll continue. Yeah, I want to know more.37400:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,160I want to know more. Someone's curious. We'll talk about it. Okay, we'll get in there later.37500:46:12,160 --> 00:46:18,960Someone's really curious. Yeah, I'm curious. When you go to the dungeon party,37600:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,960first of all, proper protocol, you're going to have to go through like a new member orientation.37700:46:24,960 --> 00:46:30,800They're going to explain the rules to you, blah, blah, blah, blah. After that, at the party,37800:46:31,600 --> 00:46:38,080you have a choice to get a wristband. And a red wristband at this dungeon party meant that you37900:46:38,080 --> 00:46:44,480were not open for people to come and talk to you. Or not open, I should say, for play. Because38000:46:44,480 --> 00:46:50,080the first part... I'm trying to remember how this got structured. The first part of the party was a38100:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,520social, where you go and you mingle and you talk to people. And then it broke into play, where you38200:46:55,520 --> 00:47:00,960could go and actually use it. Yeah, vibe check and play. Yeah. So pretty standard. If someone had a38300:47:00,960 --> 00:47:07,920red wristband on them, when it came to the play part, it would be like, okay. They're not here38400:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,680for play, but you can still talk to them. They're not here for play. Right. And in the social,38500:47:11,680 --> 00:47:17,680that's when you can mingle. So I think for a dominant, if they've noticed a collar around38600:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,720their neck and they don't have a red wristband, they might just say, it's all about communication38700:47:22,720 --> 00:47:28,480at the end of the day. So they might say, oh, hey, I see you're a submissive. Are you owned?38800:47:28,480 --> 00:47:34,080And then you say, oh, no, this is a self-collary. Because also a lot of other dominants, they might38900:47:34,960 --> 00:47:39,520be like, oh, I'm okay if you go to this party and you play with some people. It sounds like39000:47:39,520 --> 00:47:45,840people in the community of BDSM, when they're serious about it, it's all about communication39100:47:45,840 --> 00:47:51,760with them, all about consent. Yeah. Which is crazy because a lot of the things that are portrayed39200:47:51,760 --> 00:47:58,000about BDSM in film, it's the total opposite. It's like, oh, no consent kind of thing. And it's just39300:47:58,000 --> 00:48:05,920like- Or consent, non-consent. Yeah. And they never go over how much they care about those39400:48:05,920 --> 00:48:15,360people, how much they care about the safety and the safety in play and how much they talk about39500:48:15,360 --> 00:48:22,080how much they care about their partner's well-being during play. I feel like that's important when39600:48:22,080 --> 00:48:29,120you're going to portray it in film. Self-collaring. Self-collaring. Yeah. Self-collaring. It's fun.39700:48:29,120 --> 00:48:36,560And I guess I have been doing it myself this whole time. I just didn't even know that. I wear39800:48:36,560 --> 00:48:43,440collars a lot. Oh, yeah. I've never officially been collared by anyone. Now. Doesn't mean that you can't.39900:48:45,120 --> 00:48:51,280But- Just putting that option out there. But yeah, that's- it's nice to know that there's a term for that.40000:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,640I just didn't know. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty- I knew about collaring, obviously, but I didn't know40100:48:56,640 --> 00:49:04,800there was an idea of actually doing it yourself. Yep. You learn a lot of new things about the kinky.40200:49:06,400 --> 00:49:13,280That is why we're here. Yeah. Oh my god. That's why we got the kink jar. Yes. Even we're learning as we do this.40300:49:13,280 --> 00:49:19,280Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So- That's the word of the day. Looks like we kind of like- we covered a lot today.40400:49:19,280 --> 00:49:30,320Yeah, we did. So, if you would like to see us cover more topics or just engage with us in general,40500:49:30,320 --> 00:49:38,960we have a Discord available now. Yes. We'll put the link down below in the information.40600:49:39,520 --> 00:49:45,920So- Links everywhere. Links are everywhere. Feel free to check it out. We're gonna try to be,40700:49:45,920 --> 00:49:53,520you know, present there and receptive of your engagement. So, please, please check it out.40800:49:53,520 --> 00:49:59,920Yeah. This has been an Unnatural to Some podcast. It's your girl, Jenny Banks, signing out. Stay kinky.40900:49:59,920 --> 00:50:15,920See you next time. Niki Sapphire.