Episode 4: William Marston Pt4 - Blacklisted?

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,440Disclaimer. This podcast features explicit language and discussion sexual nature. It may contain subjects and comfortable to some200:00:06,440 --> 00:00:13,280Please understand that the opinions shared on this podcast are not a representation of any organization or employer. The host may be a part of300:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,880Do you get asked if you're gay a lot400:00:24,880 --> 00:00:32,080Because of that at that same park that we went to mm-hmm for kayaking I actually got like kind of hit on500:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,920Got like man called600:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,580Like oh you mean cat called for men. Yeah, okay700:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,040Wolf called I don't know what the800:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,440So900:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,600What's your name again1000:00:51,600 --> 00:00:57,200Beard man, so beard man. So what are we gonna talk about today?1100:00:57,600 --> 00:01:05,680We're gonna talk about you know did talking about sex ruin William Marston's career or more so how he went about it1200:01:07,200 --> 00:01:13,440So you when you mean did sex ruin his career like did him getting involved with1300:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,120Olive and Sadie or like did him getting1400:01:19,120 --> 00:01:28,240Involved with BDSM or both so one thing when I was doing the research people continuously went back on and even1500:01:29,560 --> 00:01:36,320Hoover kind of notated and official FBI reports was that his research was very1600:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,520One-sided or influenced by his own personal1700:01:42,520 --> 00:01:49,560Her personal preferences so he wasn't what we would call today doing the scientific method1800:01:49,920 --> 00:01:56,480He kind of started with hey, I'm into you like BDSM. How do I incorporate that into my research?1900:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,400How do I study the things that I like?2000:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,840right2100:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,120But did he do it in an appropriate way?2200:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,080Because like for instance famous psychologist Freud2300:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,600He's very famous about talking about sex and he was highly regarded2400:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,800Mm-hmm William Marston does research on sex and kind of goes into sex and he2500:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,080Does not have yeah, he doesn't have the same success isn't same2600:02:24,040 --> 00:02:25,240outcome2700:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,240What else are we talking about?2800:02:27,240 --> 00:02:33,000We're gonna talk about William Marston going to work for Universal Studios and working on a few movies2900:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,000He went from educator to screenwriter3000:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,600Yes, okay3100:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,400And really kind of just anything he could do3200:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,320So he did write a couple of fictional books3300:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,280During that time period he he tries to sell his lie detector3400:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,680We kind of go over him losing a very major lie detector fight3500:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,400over like the patent3600:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,400just kind of3700:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,000Trying to market it. I believe because most people3800:03:03,000 --> 00:03:09,320I guess didn't believe in it at the time and a lot of people still don't believe in it today his marketing approach was3900:03:10,100 --> 00:03:14,940Unsuccessful whereas somebody else kind of comes in and has the correct approach4000:03:16,120 --> 00:03:21,960Got it. Okay, depending on how much time we have today. We're gonna talk about living life as a lie4100:03:23,640 --> 00:03:27,560Oh my god, you know, that's really relatable because like4200:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,080You live your life as a lie? No pre-transition4300:03:31,080 --> 00:03:38,360That was definitely I was trying to be honest. It's okay. You can be being please be yourself now. It's safe4400:03:39,880 --> 00:03:45,640I am myself now. That's come out. It's okay. Come out here. Come on. Let's let's see the real4500:03:46,120 --> 00:03:47,320Ginny bangs4600:03:47,320 --> 00:03:53,320Yeah, come out of the closet. Whoa, I'm crazy. You'd tell us if you thought we were crazy, right? No4700:03:54,360 --> 00:03:59,000No, I think that's like the first rule when you think someone's crazy is you do not mention4800:03:59,000 --> 00:04:04,520The fact that they're crazy. Yeah, you just give them treats and yeah, and you'd be very nice to them and kind wait a second4900:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,560You just wait a second5000:04:09,080 --> 00:04:15,640Come to the studio every Sunday and just record with them and just record with them and not lose your mind5100:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,000So5200:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,280William Marston, William Marston, William Marston5300:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,920We left off last time where we were getting into5400:04:26,920 --> 00:04:32,760The good like the stuff that was relating to the movie. We talked about like college shminkings5500:04:33,640 --> 00:04:40,440Last we spoke it was about Sadie being introduced into the relationship and then5600:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,200Jay talked with me and you a little bit about people coming into our relationship5700:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,720Yeah, that's true. So yes, it didn't sound like William5800:04:53,160 --> 00:04:54,520Introduced5900:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,520Uh olive the most ethical way into their relationship6000:04:59,960 --> 00:05:04,120Yeah, yeah, I agree with that statement wholeheartedly it was kind of like6100:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,480Yeah, so this is olive and she's staying6200:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,560So you better6300:05:11,560 --> 00:05:16,440You better be okay with it. Yeah, you better get behind it or you know, it's over6400:05:17,000 --> 00:05:22,680And also kind of going back to a previous episode when I mentioned that6500:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,560When I mentioned that William kind of forced Sadie to change her first name6600:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,880You kind of made a comment of like well, there could have been like a lot of reasons for that6700:05:32,680 --> 00:05:38,520And I was like, oh, we'll just wait like yeah. So now so this is a callback. This is a callback. Oh my god6800:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,760Even though Sadie liked her name6900:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,040William convinced her to change her name7000:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,760to Betty Marston7100:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,760So we don't know the purpose of that there may be a fundamental reason that we just7200:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,360Don't know because time correct. Yeah7300:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,040So I just thought it was like a little odd7400:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,320Yeah, well, there might be more to that. It might not be that he pushed for that. So we're gonna revisit that7500:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,720So now that you know a little bit more about how he handles some kind of situations7600:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,520What are your thoughts now?7700:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,720What do you mean as far as like him7800:06:18,120 --> 00:06:25,240As a person as a whole or like how he handles relation his relationship just more so so I get a sense that7900:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,120Yes, he8000:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,320He kind of falls into like submissive side of8100:06:32,120 --> 00:06:37,320Kinky bdsm stuff. However, there are times where he does appear to be very8200:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,680Controlling yeah8300:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,200Well, I mean, yeah, he kind of selfishly imposed8400:06:44,760 --> 00:06:51,400All of into the relationship it seems and then with the changing uh, making Sadie change her name8500:06:54,280 --> 00:06:59,720Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's kind of confusing. Maybe he's more of like a switch role8600:07:00,360 --> 00:07:01,480than he8700:07:01,480 --> 00:07:02,600it's like8800:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,600Maybe there wasn't like a thing about like being switch. You're either8900:07:06,600 --> 00:07:13,000Sub or you're dominant, you know, so even today. I think there's a mindset of you either have to be like a dom or a sub9000:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,000It can't be a switch9100:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,680But there's also a lot of different relationships styles9200:07:19,240 --> 00:07:26,840Within like bdsm or like the kinky sphere of things the multiverse of things the multiverse of kink9300:07:27,080 --> 00:07:32,840Yes, what? Whoa, because you can have a ds relationship. You can have an ms relationship. You have a9400:07:32,840 --> 00:07:39,080There's a multiverse. Yeah, i'm gonna say that one more time multiverse of kink and that's now copyrighted9500:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,800No, i'm kidding. There's a multiverse9600:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,080Yeah, and you can even have a flr relationship9700:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,360Which was female led relationship?9800:07:49,560 --> 00:07:55,720Which necessarily has nothing to do with bdsm or is ours a female led relationship?9900:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,640Yeah, I would say that10000:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,440Yeah, I would assume so yeah10100:08:03,960 --> 00:08:09,880Even though we're switching the roles of who leads but we're both yeah, I guess our boyfriend does kind of go10200:08:10,520 --> 00:08:16,040With whatever we decide when he's here. It's definitely a shared thing. We don't10300:08:16,600 --> 00:08:17,560We don't10400:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,800Run things but he likes being told to do yeah. Yeah10500:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,600I agree10600:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,400I agree and there's different there's different levels to all of those relationship styles10700:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,080And I actually kind of want to do an episode about that breaking that down further one time, but10800:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,720I digress10900:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,400Actually something I do want to bring up is what happened in our discord11000:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,400Oh, we have a discord. We do have a discord11100:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,560What you can go ahead and join join you have the chance. Yes11200:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,920So someone brought up11300:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,400I believe it was the second episode of william arston how we talked about11400:08:58,360 --> 00:08:59,320um11500:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,320ethyl and margaret11600:09:01,860 --> 00:09:03,860sanger11700:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,920Yes, I did look back and figure out how to pronounce her name. I'm sorry11800:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,620I guess we came across very critical on sanger's11900:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,080view12000:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,080or decision on actually12100:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,000Taking the step to remove ethyl from the women's rights12200:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,960fight, yeah12300:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,640and12400:09:27,640 --> 00:09:33,800You know going back and kind of thinking about it me personally as an only child. I always wanted to have a sibling12500:09:34,920 --> 00:09:40,760I I think if I was in the same position and this is easy for me to say because yeah12600:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,040Totally not in that situation12700:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,200but12800:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,160You know if I had a sibling who was suffering who had12900:09:49,860 --> 00:09:55,080Potentially, you know, they could die in prison essentially it was like hey13000:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,360You know if you do this one little thing, we'll let her out. Everything will be fine13100:10:01,320 --> 00:10:08,200I think I would do it. I do I think it's hard because we're looking back at history and we know what happens going forward13200:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,920sanger goes on to be13300:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,720one of the most13400:10:13,780 --> 00:10:15,000influential13500:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,840women's rights activists13600:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,520Period and ethyl was removed from kind of that fight13700:10:21,160 --> 00:10:28,120I so there's that one aspect. I will say also from my understanding of kind of looking into a few things13800:10:28,920 --> 00:10:33,080I do feel like ethyl was willing to do whatever it took for women's rights13900:10:33,720 --> 00:10:41,320So for instance dying in prison, like if if she was going to become a martyr, so be it and margo was like very in charge of14000:10:41,320 --> 00:10:46,840of political movements, I think she was a little bit more political. I think she realized hey14100:10:47,720 --> 00:10:53,720Yes, i'm willing to do tying yourself against the fence. Yeah, for example with other women's uh women14200:10:54,120 --> 00:10:59,240Wow tying themselves up with chains and stuff in front of the white house as a protest movement14300:10:59,720 --> 00:11:06,200For example, yeah very political. I think she realized like hey, i'm willing to do whatever it takes. However, if I die14400:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,960You know, I can't continue fighting so she was a little bit more14500:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,300political and14600:11:13,420 --> 00:11:16,220Wanting to stay around to see the fight out. Yeah14700:11:17,100 --> 00:11:18,540Yeah, that makes sense14800:11:18,540 --> 00:11:19,740they I14900:11:19,740 --> 00:11:20,940so15000:11:20,940 --> 00:11:22,940I do have a sister and15100:11:24,460 --> 00:11:28,460We're so this is coming from someone that's not close to their sibling15200:11:29,100 --> 00:11:32,780I think it depends on their relationship as far as like15300:11:33,500 --> 00:11:35,500whether or not15400:11:35,500 --> 00:11:37,660Margaret was going to take ethyl out15500:11:37,660 --> 00:11:41,100because if they had an estranged relationship15600:11:41,820 --> 00:11:43,820and they barely talked15700:11:44,220 --> 00:11:50,380Margaret might be like well, she's fighting for a cause. This is huge. She's fighting for the same cause that I am15800:11:50,860 --> 00:11:54,540I'm gonna leave her there even though it might be the risk of her life15900:11:55,020 --> 00:11:59,180If they're close super close, it doesn't matter how how16000:11:59,740 --> 00:12:05,580Passionate they are about the fight. They care more about each other and the well-being of each other than the fight16100:12:05,580 --> 00:12:08,220The fear of losing a loved one. Yeah, exactly16200:12:08,780 --> 00:12:13,580And I think that very much has to do with how you're one brought up with your family16300:12:13,740 --> 00:12:19,980closeness of your family and then to how close you are with that sibling later on when you're an adult because16400:12:20,300 --> 00:12:23,340You know some siblings stay close forever. Yeah, some16500:12:23,900 --> 00:12:27,180Stay close when they're kids, you know go their own ways when they're adults16600:12:28,220 --> 00:12:34,380Some are never close some never know each other. So that's just my personal opinion from where I'm at with my sister16700:12:34,380 --> 00:12:37,820You know and I will say I was in a situation16800:12:38,540 --> 00:12:41,020a few years ago where16900:12:42,220 --> 00:12:48,620A friend of mine. She told me some pretty dark stuff. I know I knew that she was struggling with some mental health things17000:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,300I was working with her on those fronts17100:12:54,380 --> 00:12:59,420She told me a few things like hey, I'm gonna tell I'm gonna tell you but you have to promise not to tell anyone17200:13:00,300 --> 00:13:02,300and then when I heard it I17300:13:02,300 --> 00:13:04,300Literally told her I'm17400:13:04,940 --> 00:13:06,380Look, I'm sorry17500:13:06,380 --> 00:13:08,380You're probably going to hate me for this17600:13:09,260 --> 00:13:15,660But at least you'll be around to hate me for the rest of your life, but I am contacting your your therapist17700:13:16,220 --> 00:13:17,020Yeah17800:13:17,020 --> 00:13:19,980And I did like contact her therapist and report her17900:13:20,620 --> 00:13:25,180And no, she didn't end up she she hated I think she hated me in the moment18000:13:25,180 --> 00:13:29,100But like we're fine today, but yeah in that split decision18100:13:29,100 --> 00:13:35,260I was like, hey, I rather you be around and hate me rather than being dead18200:13:35,260 --> 00:13:38,060Yeah, that's our decision to make and18300:13:39,980 --> 00:13:44,380You want to do the right thing and keeping the person you love around18400:13:44,380 --> 00:13:47,580It's always gonna outweigh those other choices. I think yeah18500:13:48,140 --> 00:13:50,860All right. So jumping into this week's episode18600:13:51,580 --> 00:13:56,300When William Marsden was doing the research for his book emotions of normal people18700:13:56,300 --> 00:13:58,940How did he do that research? Uh, I don't know18800:13:59,500 --> 00:14:03,340He actually basically had what I would consider sex parties18900:14:04,140 --> 00:14:07,500He held sex parties to conduct research19000:14:08,220 --> 00:14:12,220Yes, and there are 95 pages of typed notes19100:14:12,940 --> 00:14:14,140of him19200:14:14,140 --> 00:14:16,940Describing these sex parties in his defense19300:14:17,900 --> 00:14:19,900He didn't really have google19400:14:20,380 --> 00:14:22,380He was doing research which19500:14:22,940 --> 00:14:24,460Does not have a research19600:14:24,460 --> 00:14:26,460which does19700:14:28,140 --> 00:14:30,460You know, you can find a lot of porn on google19800:14:31,020 --> 00:14:35,100Is he wearing a lab coat while doing this research in the sex party?19900:14:35,100 --> 00:14:37,340What do you mean by lab coat? Do you mean like a condom?20000:14:38,460 --> 00:14:39,500No20100:14:39,500 --> 00:14:44,380Well, is he wearing a lab coat and a condom while doing this research?20200:14:44,860 --> 00:14:47,420Imagine lying to women about your lab coat20300:14:47,420 --> 00:14:54,300But I just imagine like showing up for you know, like oh i'm gonna go to this famous20400:14:55,480 --> 00:15:00,700Psychologist for some research that he's doing and then it's like, oh, this is a sex party20500:15:01,180 --> 00:15:03,180Oh, this is20600:15:03,740 --> 00:15:05,740Pulls out his beaker set20700:15:07,900 --> 00:15:09,900Sex is fun20800:15:10,540 --> 00:15:13,500Learning that i'm thinking about the research with sex parties20900:15:13,500 --> 00:15:20,700I'm literally thinking about like guys in lab coats fucking people and like having a clipboard and taking notes while doing so21000:15:21,180 --> 00:15:23,820Learning and when they when they come they're just like21100:15:24,460 --> 00:15:26,460Oh interesting21200:15:26,620 --> 00:15:28,620They mark it down on their clipboard21300:15:29,740 --> 00:15:31,500Learning is fun21400:15:31,500 --> 00:15:33,500Learning is fun and sexy21500:15:33,740 --> 00:15:35,740And sexy and sexy21600:15:35,980 --> 00:15:39,420So during these sex parties he had what he described21700:15:41,180 --> 00:15:43,180Love leaders21800:15:43,180 --> 00:15:45,180Love leaders mistresses21900:15:45,980 --> 00:15:46,780and22000:15:46,780 --> 00:15:50,700Love girls those that that was the terminology that he used22100:15:51,340 --> 00:15:55,260Uh, so love girls wore no clothes at any time22200:15:56,140 --> 00:15:57,740kind of22300:15:57,740 --> 00:16:04,940If we're jumping into like a bdsm porno, this would be a sex slave from my gathering22400:16:06,220 --> 00:16:08,220A love girl a love girl22500:16:09,100 --> 00:16:11,020In his in his notes22600:16:11,020 --> 00:16:13,820He wrote love girl is just a girl that's always naked22700:16:15,100 --> 00:16:17,100Okay, and then what are the other two?22800:16:17,340 --> 00:16:24,300Uh, so you have love leaders and mistresses. What's the difference? So the difference I was very unclear about22900:16:25,020 --> 00:16:31,580um, maybe I got like just too preoccupied with with reading the research, you know, but uh,23000:16:32,940 --> 00:16:34,940No, so love leaders23100:16:35,020 --> 00:16:39,100Or mistresses would use their bodies to make men submit to them23200:16:39,100 --> 00:16:44,540And then they were kind of like used to keep the passion going during sex23300:16:45,260 --> 00:16:49,100Now interesting. Yeah, and what's also interesting is during sex23400:16:49,980 --> 00:16:53,100Males were supposed to keep themselves in check23500:16:53,660 --> 00:16:54,620quote23600:16:54,620 --> 00:16:57,100In check. What does he mean by that?23700:16:57,820 --> 00:17:03,580Trying to not have an orgasm so being denied an orgasm. Oh edging. Yes23800:17:03,580 --> 00:17:04,540Oh23900:17:04,540 --> 00:17:05,900interesting24000:17:05,900 --> 00:17:09,900So it was like kind of like require well requirement is just like24100:17:10,620 --> 00:17:12,300Edging yourself24200:17:12,300 --> 00:17:16,060Yeah, very part of the sex party. You have to be really good at edging24300:17:17,180 --> 00:17:23,660Just saying maybe i'll go back and do like a deep dive into the 95 pages of notes, but24400:17:24,380 --> 00:17:28,060Yes, like it's public releases notes on those sex parties24500:17:28,780 --> 00:17:33,900Uh, yeah, i'm pretty sure that we can still access them today. They're not in name of his books or anything24600:17:33,900 --> 00:17:38,060I mean keep in mind i'm reading the my main source of research24700:17:38,860 --> 00:17:41,420for this topic came from the24800:17:42,120 --> 00:17:45,820Wonder woman a secret history. I believe the one that's24900:17:46,460 --> 00:17:51,340Right there the secret history of wonder woman. Yeah, so very pretty cover. I like it25000:17:51,340 --> 00:17:54,380Isn't that like an original artwork from his comic? Yes25100:17:55,900 --> 00:17:58,620So this was my number one source of research25200:17:59,660 --> 00:18:02,380It's an amazing book. We do not cover everything25300:18:02,380 --> 00:18:08,380That this that is in this book. She did such a great job with research25400:18:08,780 --> 00:18:10,780this giant section25500:18:11,180 --> 00:18:13,980Of the book is her sources25600:18:14,780 --> 00:18:18,060So this is her citing all of her sources of25700:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,660The research that she did it's it's insane. I mean it's25800:18:22,460 --> 00:18:26,460You know, it starts on page 324 and it ends on page25900:18:27,500 --> 00:18:29,500434 so26000:18:29,500 --> 00:18:31,980You know over a hundred pages of just typed26100:18:32,700 --> 00:18:39,900Like references for her research. So this was my main source of um of research. This is was26200:18:40,540 --> 00:18:45,180Essentially for our research. It was the holy bible or the holy grail if you will26300:18:46,380 --> 00:18:51,740The emotions of normal people I was really trying to get a sense of more so of26400:18:52,300 --> 00:18:54,300How william kind of thought?26500:18:54,780 --> 00:18:56,300And then the comic26600:18:56,300 --> 00:19:03,100Books I was mainly kind of looking you know, is there a lot of bdsm themes in his comics?26700:19:03,980 --> 00:19:04,860but26800:19:04,860 --> 00:19:10,060So no, I did not go into a deep dive into the 95 pages of notes also26900:19:10,620 --> 00:19:14,140It was something that I like setting out to do research. I was like, oh, yes27000:19:14,140 --> 00:19:15,820I'm going to read everything that he wrote27100:19:15,820 --> 00:19:22,300He wrote a lot of fiction books and a lot of screen rights and it was it would be impossible27200:19:22,300 --> 00:19:23,820I would still be doing the research27300:19:23,820 --> 00:19:30,220I think we would have to have like a team of like five researchers just dedicated to come through literally everything that he wrote27400:19:30,860 --> 00:19:36,220So we don't have a team of researchers yet. No, we just have scooby get on it scooby27500:19:38,860 --> 00:19:44,380He's gonna get on it he's gonna get on I can't see there he is yeah, that's27600:19:45,580 --> 00:19:50,540That's our research dog right there. He researches everything. He's very intelligent. Look at his eyes27700:19:50,540 --> 00:19:52,540He's very intelligent look at his eyes27800:19:53,980 --> 00:19:56,140But no, so27900:19:56,140 --> 00:19:59,740I'm relying on the research that someone else did keep that in mind28000:20:00,460 --> 00:20:02,460um, but going back to it28100:20:03,020 --> 00:20:05,020So you can tell jill of course28200:20:05,260 --> 00:20:12,300Oh, yeah good at what the research session like that's an insane amount of sighting. Yeah, and to also like28300:20:12,940 --> 00:20:14,940Put it down in your book like that28400:20:15,020 --> 00:20:16,860That's yeah28500:20:16,860 --> 00:20:21,420So jumping back into it. It is said that william arston was fascinated with quote28600:20:22,360 --> 00:20:26,300Captivation and this is what we might call bondage today28700:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,720Captivation he was fascinated with captivation28800:20:32,060 --> 00:20:33,100so28900:20:33,100 --> 00:20:34,300they29000:20:34,300 --> 00:20:36,300Bdsm was referred to as29100:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,940Captivation or it's what we might consider29200:20:39,900 --> 00:20:41,900Bondage today, huh?29300:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,700Back then it was called captivation. That's what29400:20:44,700 --> 00:20:50,860It's what we're kind of gathering scientifically. He's talking about captivation. We think he's talking about bondage29500:20:51,900 --> 00:20:57,020Which carries into wonder woman that is called bondage now captivation doesn't sound very29600:20:57,580 --> 00:20:59,740It sounds pretty captivating captivate me29700:21:00,860 --> 00:21:06,540I don't know. I don't know. I feel like when I hear the word captivation. I think of like someone like being captured29800:21:06,540 --> 00:21:14,140Uh, hello. Do you want to go back to my place for some captivation play?29900:21:15,660 --> 00:21:18,220I that does not sound sexy at all30000:21:19,820 --> 00:21:24,300You sure look captivating. Okay, so that's better use of the word but30100:21:25,020 --> 00:21:29,420Uh, do I just love it when you're on the floor all captivated?30200:21:29,420 --> 00:21:35,020Sweet here's some rope. Could you maybe captivate me real quick?30300:21:36,380 --> 00:21:42,540All right, can we can we go all right, let's uh, yeah, so what what's going what's kind of going on here so30400:21:43,420 --> 00:21:47,740At this time period william arson kind of wanted free love30500:21:48,540 --> 00:21:50,540Olive wanted a family30600:21:50,540 --> 00:21:57,180Sadie wanted to have children, but she did not want to be she didn't want having children to hinder her career30700:21:57,180 --> 00:22:01,580She was very focused on her career. She wasn't gonna let like being a woman stop her30800:22:02,700 --> 00:22:08,460She did want children, but she wanted someone to kind of take care of those kids. Oh look olive and william's30900:22:08,940 --> 00:22:12,460Thinking to himself. I'm gonna put babies in both of these girls31000:22:13,500 --> 00:22:16,220I mean he does I know. Yeah, and he's like31100:22:17,020 --> 00:22:22,140Everything i've heard about her so far. She's just freaking amazing. She's like a modern day woman from today31200:22:23,260 --> 00:22:25,340Back then like she's wonder woman31300:22:25,340 --> 00:22:31,100I she should be called modern woman that I I bet you people were so intimidated by her31400:22:31,660 --> 00:22:37,100So intimidated just because she was a go-getter. She was like a lot like willing probably a go-getter31500:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,340And got her goals and set high goals and achieve them31600:22:42,300 --> 00:22:45,820So olive does go on to get her masters in 192731700:22:46,620 --> 00:22:49,740in psychology at columbia university31800:22:49,740 --> 00:22:56,300And later that year william was hired as a lecturer which is below assistant professor31900:22:56,940 --> 00:23:01,980So he's continuing to fall down. Yeah, the the academic ladder year32000:23:02,860 --> 00:23:10,860It is noted that olive does want to get her phd. It was urged to quit by her professors because she was a woman32100:23:11,660 --> 00:23:12,460and32200:23:12,460 --> 00:23:14,480Not a lot of jobs for phd32300:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,500graduates at this time32400:23:17,500 --> 00:23:19,420essentially32500:23:19,420 --> 00:23:21,420Also in this time of her life32600:23:22,220 --> 00:23:24,220She does kind of have to stay home32700:23:24,780 --> 00:23:26,780to take care of sadie's children32800:23:28,220 --> 00:23:29,180So32900:23:29,180 --> 00:23:31,980But I think it was a combination. I think it was a combination of33000:23:33,260 --> 00:23:35,980You know kind of being urged not to pursue a phd33100:23:36,620 --> 00:23:42,460Because there's you know, there's no jobs for women with phd and then also kind of at home33200:23:42,460 --> 00:23:45,100Being urged to kind of stay home and take care of the children33300:23:45,100 --> 00:23:49,260She had multiple things pulling her away from school. Yeah33400:23:49,260 --> 00:23:51,260I mean if you think about if the people33500:23:51,500 --> 00:23:56,380If your loved ones are telling you like you shouldn't do something and then you turn to your academic advisors33600:23:56,380 --> 00:23:58,380And they're all telling you not to do something33700:23:58,620 --> 00:24:00,780If everyone in your life is telling you not to do something33800:24:00,780 --> 00:24:04,300It's very rare for someone to be like no i'm gonna go and just do it33900:24:05,100 --> 00:24:06,700So yeah34000:24:06,700 --> 00:24:12,700So what's also key to note is sadie and olive both help write and do research34100:24:12,700 --> 00:24:15,340for william arston's book34200:24:15,340 --> 00:24:20,300However, he listed he's the only author that's listed of the book34300:24:21,020 --> 00:24:26,940Um, he does dedicate his book to the five women in his life, but he is the sole author34400:24:29,020 --> 00:24:31,420Hmm, I don't believe that's34500:24:32,380 --> 00:24:34,380Fair but no34600:24:34,700 --> 00:24:39,900And that's again we can't reverse history, but I I still feel like that's a little kind of like34700:24:39,900 --> 00:24:43,020Yeah, it's another sign of william arston wasn't actually34800:24:44,220 --> 00:24:48,140That handsome suave guy from the movie. I also don't know what it34900:24:48,620 --> 00:24:53,500What all goes into making a book like you said did you usually list the researchers as?35000:24:54,140 --> 00:25:01,340Co-authoring or they said they helped write they helped write it. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I I got a feeling that35100:25:02,140 --> 00:25:06,300They they should have been listed as authors. I think35200:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,500I think william arston was very kind of focused on35300:25:09,980 --> 00:25:12,460He wanted to be successful like him35400:25:13,900 --> 00:25:19,180So he was gonna go do a bunch of stuff and like yeah, he might dedicate the book to them35500:25:19,740 --> 00:25:21,260but35600:25:21,900 --> 00:25:27,420At the end of the day, I think he had his own personal goals and he was gonna try to achieve them. However, he could35700:25:28,060 --> 00:25:30,060So maybe there's a reason35800:25:30,220 --> 00:25:32,860He didn't list them as co-authors35900:25:32,860 --> 00:25:35,820He didn't list them as co-authors36000:25:36,540 --> 00:25:38,540I think also36100:25:38,620 --> 00:25:41,900Probably from an academic point of view keep in mind36200:25:42,780 --> 00:25:45,020Women were not super respected36300:25:45,980 --> 00:25:52,220So I think he wanted the book to be taken very seriously in the academic world36400:25:53,180 --> 00:25:54,620And to do so36500:25:54,620 --> 00:25:59,980He didn't want like he didn't want it to come across like women were writing it36600:25:59,980 --> 00:26:05,340Yeah, because of right so maybe maybe that was a collective decision that they made to like hey36700:26:05,340 --> 00:26:10,300Let's release it under one name. Maybe they're like both olive and36800:26:10,860 --> 00:26:13,580Sadie were very progressive thinkers. So36900:26:14,380 --> 00:26:17,340That might have been a decision they made together like hey37000:26:17,580 --> 00:26:22,540If you want your this book that means so much to you to get to everyone and not just be37100:26:23,500 --> 00:26:25,660Shut down immediately just put your name on it37200:26:25,660 --> 00:26:31,660However, the book was completely ignored on the academic level the only review that37300:26:32,300 --> 00:26:35,020Could be found was a review wrote by olive37400:26:36,780 --> 00:26:38,460So37500:26:38,460 --> 00:26:41,100Wow, yep. Okay, she reviewed37600:26:41,980 --> 00:26:43,980the book that she was37700:26:44,060 --> 00:26:48,940Perfect in writing. Oh, yeah. I mean keep in mind. I believe we covered this37800:26:48,940 --> 00:26:54,860Olive was writing for a magazine and she would kind of pretend to not know william marston and37900:26:55,580 --> 00:26:59,980She would interview this great psychologist. Oh, yeah, I forgot. Yeah38000:27:01,100 --> 00:27:03,100So that's true38100:27:03,340 --> 00:27:10,380Conflict of interest kind of unethical. Yeah, but at the same time it helps her family so I could see her reasoning38200:27:10,380 --> 00:27:14,940Yeah, I mean, it's also unethical the way they were treating women. So more power to her38300:27:14,940 --> 00:27:20,140More power to her now what's kind of interesting is38400:27:20,540 --> 00:27:27,020After finding out that his lecture position would not be renewed at columbia. He reached out to harvard for a position38500:27:27,980 --> 00:27:33,660However, he got a few mixed recommendations one being from his former advisor and professor38600:27:34,380 --> 00:27:38,700Herbert langfield after speaking about him as a student38700:27:38,700 --> 00:27:43,020He went on to say quote so rumors have come to me from various places38800:27:43,020 --> 00:27:46,000Which I have not been able to substantiate38900:27:47,100 --> 00:27:54,220It therefore makes it very difficult for me to say anything further than when he took his degree at harvard. He gave39000:27:54,940 --> 00:27:57,420every promise of doing excellent work39100:27:58,300 --> 00:28:02,640So what's kind of interesting here is that this letter of recommendation?39200:28:04,060 --> 00:28:08,540It's the kind of thing that you would say if somebody was gay39300:28:08,540 --> 00:28:12,140It's a very political nice39400:28:13,820 --> 00:28:16,140Way of blacklisting somebody39500:28:17,820 --> 00:28:21,660Which is exactly what happened to william and william arston would never39600:28:22,460 --> 00:28:24,940He would never work in academia ever again39700:28:25,660 --> 00:28:27,660Wow because of this guy's words39800:28:28,380 --> 00:28:29,340Yes39900:28:29,340 --> 00:28:31,340so his40000:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,480Mentor slash professor40100:28:33,480 --> 00:28:41,080Yes, and he was he was also well known in the academic world, right at the time. I believe so keep in mind40200:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,880A lot has happened. William arston has like moved around he got accused of40300:28:48,520 --> 00:28:54,680He got accused of fraud. It's unknown if people knew that him and olive were kind of40400:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,240Having some maybe possibly40500:28:58,100 --> 00:29:00,440Relationship on the side as he was a professor40600:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,920He's coming out with you know research and books about sex and40700:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,720things of that nature40800:29:07,720 --> 00:29:08,600so40900:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,600It's unclear as to why41000:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,400you know he got blacklisted but I I believe41100:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,880it was kind of like a41200:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,600A list of things it was you know, one thing after another I wouldn't say it's just like one thing41300:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,240Clearly his peers41400:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,640Kind of just looked at him as a pervert. Yes41500:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,720And they thought he had no business around school41600:29:30,840 --> 00:29:37,320And in the academics in general keep in mind the book emotions of normal people41700:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,880It does defend41800:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,080some sexual perversions and also, you know41900:29:44,180 --> 00:29:45,960homosexuality which42000:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,920Is very much like frowned upon at this time42100:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,520so42200:29:50,520 --> 00:29:56,440I I think when he was writing the book he thought it was going to be a a huge hit and this was going to like42300:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,920kind of boost his academic career42400:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,760And I think it was kind of the final nail in the coffin42500:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,760I think there was a lot of nails in the coffin, but I think this was like no, I mean42600:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,200Imagine if that book came out today42700:30:11,720 --> 00:30:18,360Like he would still have be facing backlash. I think like we're divided a lot over that. Yeah today42800:30:18,360 --> 00:30:19,480Yeah42900:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,800Well the focus the I feel like the fight now is more focused on trans people43000:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,680Against us, you know43100:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,320Like it's changed it's shifted from like just43200:30:32,600 --> 00:30:39,480People being hateful towards gay people for now. They're hateful towards like anyone of the queer community43300:30:40,100 --> 00:30:42,200Specifically going after trans people now43400:30:42,200 --> 00:30:48,520It's it's a scary time I think I think it still depends I one I think it depends on what part of the world you're in I43500:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,200for instance43600:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,600I I believe in India. It's still I don't want to say illegal43700:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,440I'm not sure but it's very much frowned upon to be gay in India43800:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,640And then even in the United States, there's parts of the United States where you know43900:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,000Your career could be hindered if you're found out to be gay44000:31:07,000 --> 00:31:13,640But I do I do think like collectively in the United States. I do think it has kind of shifted for44100:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,920the trans community the fight house44200:31:17,720 --> 00:31:24,360But I do very much kind of still think it's dependent on where you live. Yeah, and how much bud light you have44300:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,600How much be like you get in your system? Yeah44400:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,480I'm kind of the person that I do believe that like when one door closes44500:31:35,480 --> 00:31:42,040Like another door opens this is kind of like my way of thinking so a silver lining gear is that even though44600:31:42,840 --> 00:31:48,840William Marston never went on to work for you know in the academic realm44700:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,080I mean44800:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,760He does become super successful in doing what he likes to do44900:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,080So yeah, and he gets to keep calling himself doctor. Yeah45000:31:59,960 --> 00:32:03,080That's very that's pretty cool that was kind of actually45100:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,880Represented in the movie like him trying to go on with his academic career45200:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,040And be successful with it only to have his personal life45300:32:12,920 --> 00:32:19,560Interfere with that and then you you see that in the movie you see he goes through a depressive period where he's not doing anything45400:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,880They definitely illustrated45500:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,360That he was very unhappy leaving the education world behind45600:32:26,520 --> 00:32:31,000I wonder if that was true or not like I wonder if he was as upset or as much45700:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,360Like you know what I tried it was a relief to leave that because I have way better ideas because45800:32:36,840 --> 00:32:42,600When I'm when we're going through all this research and everything it seems like he was always like he had ideas after ideas45900:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,600After ideas always going on, you know46000:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,320I46100:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,320In this regard I view him very46200:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,120very much46300:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,240I can kind of relate to him in this way of46400:32:57,240 --> 00:33:04,120You know if I was putting my myself in his shoes, it would be very devastating for me until I kind of46500:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,840Lose this fight46600:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,480However, I think his mentality and also my mentality is46700:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,240Like okay, this did not work. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to be successful46800:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,560so46900:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,560Like hey, I hit a roadblock47000:33:21,560 --> 00:33:29,080Okay, just don't give up. Yeah, it's i'll find my way around that roadblock or i'm gonna kind of move on but47100:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,200One way or another like i'm going to be successful like it's just a very47200:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,840like determined attitude47300:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,040Of you know, it's not working on the academic level. I'm gonna shift over47400:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,280But I still think I still think it was devastating for him. I guess that would be very devastating47500:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,480To lose that because like that's your life. That's your life's work47600:33:52,120 --> 00:33:59,000And no one's when you lose that credit from like harvard of all places the place you got your degrees from47700:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,280It's like no one's gonna believe you anymore. Yeah47800:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,800No one's gonna listen to you. They took away his credibility for47900:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,760Everything. Yeah, I I think I can definitely relate to this because48000:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,380For instance like I was in a management position48100:34:14,380 --> 00:34:18,220And I got very frustrated with it and I was like, you know what like48200:34:18,940 --> 00:34:20,940Fine. Forget this48300:34:21,420 --> 00:34:27,260Um, i'm gonna go into like an entirely different career path. I'm gonna go back to college. I'm gonna get a degree48400:34:27,980 --> 00:34:29,980I'm gonna become an engineer48500:34:30,300 --> 00:34:31,900Okay, like48600:34:31,900 --> 00:34:33,900I've made it and then48700:34:34,460 --> 00:34:37,820Being an engineer and being frustrated at being an engineer48800:34:38,460 --> 00:34:41,580Like okay. Well, you know, i'm gonna also be a engineer48900:34:41,580 --> 00:34:44,620like okay, well, you know, i'm gonna also on the side do49000:34:45,420 --> 00:34:47,420a podcast and it's49100:34:48,300 --> 00:34:49,500I think49200:34:49,500 --> 00:34:51,500for me49300:34:51,500 --> 00:34:53,500He's very determined49400:34:53,500 --> 00:34:58,540But he's also shifting in a lot of different ways to try to see like where he fits in49500:34:58,940 --> 00:35:02,380And I think like the whole academic door was like a slap in the face49600:35:03,180 --> 00:35:05,660And I do think it hurt him keep in mind49700:35:05,660 --> 00:35:12,460Keep in mind unlike the movie. This is a guy that he went from being a football player49800:35:13,020 --> 00:35:14,860very much in shape49900:35:14,860 --> 00:35:18,060To then weighing like over 300 pounds50000:35:19,100 --> 00:35:20,940drinking all the time50100:35:20,940 --> 00:35:22,780Smoking all the time50200:35:22,780 --> 00:35:29,020To me, that's not somebody that thinks like oh i'm very successful and like I have everything in life50300:35:29,020 --> 00:35:37,500He's very much kind of like stressed out and he's trying to find like where he fits in. That's just like my personal take on it50400:35:37,580 --> 00:35:39,900Yeah, and he had a creative outlet50500:35:40,780 --> 00:35:43,340That he was already comfortable with and he's probably50600:35:44,540 --> 00:35:47,020Looking for new ways to reach an audience50700:35:48,460 --> 00:35:53,660Because he couldn't do it in a schoolhouse anymore. Yeah, but anyways, yeah50800:35:53,660 --> 00:36:00,460So William Marston at this point in his life, he goes to work at Universal Studios50900:36:01,900 --> 00:36:06,060So he works as a psychologist to help with movies51000:36:06,700 --> 00:36:09,020Um, he was denied a five-year contract51100:36:10,300 --> 00:36:11,660He then51200:36:11,660 --> 00:36:13,660worked at Paramount51300:36:14,140 --> 00:36:15,340um51400:36:15,340 --> 00:36:19,980Early Paramount. Yeah, and he even went on to uh start his own movie studio51500:36:19,980 --> 00:36:28,540What it did fail when the stock market collapsed? I don't recall what it was called. I don't really know how far he got51600:36:29,100 --> 00:36:33,900With it during this time frame in his life. He never had a job longer than one year51700:36:33,900 --> 00:36:36,940So he did a lot of shifting and to me this is again51800:36:36,940 --> 00:36:42,700He's trying to figure out like where do I fit in he's also trying to support a family, you know, I mean51900:36:43,180 --> 00:36:45,740A large family. Yeah, it's not your traditional52000:36:45,740 --> 00:36:51,280You know just a man and a woman he has a polyamory relationship52100:36:51,580 --> 00:36:56,300So and did they have kids? Yeah, or read that that point in time?52200:36:56,300 --> 00:37:00,700Oh, yeah, because all of it was mentioned that olive was watching Sadie52300:37:00,700 --> 00:37:05,980Sadie has children and olive has gone back to take care of children. Yeah, so he he's he's got52400:37:06,540 --> 00:37:08,540Starting to build quite52500:37:09,100 --> 00:37:11,100A few people in his household52600:37:11,580 --> 00:37:14,620Quite a family. Yeah, family is what he's building right now. Yeah52700:37:14,620 --> 00:37:19,180So covering some interesting things for universal he worked on52800:37:19,740 --> 00:37:23,100The showboat movie in 1929. I've never heard of this52900:37:23,100 --> 00:37:28,620However, he did work on the original 1930 movie all quiet on the western front53000:37:28,940 --> 00:37:33,660Which was recently remade and is on netflix today. Oh cool. Um53100:37:34,700 --> 00:37:38,780They did even though he personally did not work on this53200:37:38,780 --> 00:37:43,100They did use his techniques and the pressure cuffs to monitor53300:37:43,100 --> 00:37:45,900audience reactions on movies such as53400:37:46,380 --> 00:37:47,980The 193153500:37:47,980 --> 00:37:53,580Frankenstein the 1931 Dracula the 1933 the invisible man and the 1931 dr53600:37:53,580 --> 00:37:59,100Jekyll and mr. Hyde, which is very interesting because that was his favorite book. Yeah. Yeah53700:37:59,580 --> 00:38:01,100So kind of cool53800:38:01,100 --> 00:38:03,100That must have been a pretty53900:38:04,140 --> 00:38:06,140Like cool moment for him54000:38:06,620 --> 00:38:11,740So he did write a fictional book entitled venus with us a tale of caesar54100:38:11,740 --> 00:38:13,740a tale of caesar54200:38:13,980 --> 00:38:16,300It's set in ancient roman times54300:38:16,860 --> 00:38:19,180And it has heavy bdsm themes54400:38:19,900 --> 00:38:22,140I actually kind of want to go back and read this book54500:38:22,620 --> 00:38:27,340Um, but basically from what I saw it's where women are kidnapped and taken to54600:38:27,980 --> 00:38:29,980the island of lesbos54700:38:30,220 --> 00:38:35,740Where they would be put in heavy chains and golden collars. However, the book was not successful54800:38:36,300 --> 00:38:38,300I think it was ahead of its time54900:38:38,300 --> 00:38:44,700So but he's already he's already building the foundation for what is going to be55000:38:45,340 --> 00:38:51,260Wonder Woman. Yeah, because he's already like, oh lesbos is a cool island to include55100:38:52,140 --> 00:38:53,420Yep55200:38:53,420 --> 00:38:55,420You know like he's already55300:38:56,620 --> 00:38:58,620The pieces are there55400:38:59,500 --> 00:39:00,700You know55500:39:00,700 --> 00:39:03,740Very much. I see like him trying like oh, let me try this55600:39:03,740 --> 00:39:08,780And then it doesn't work out and he's like, okay, let me try this the wonder woman target is here55700:39:08,780 --> 00:39:14,540And he's throwing darts and he just hasn't hit it yet, but he's trying and I do think he's like55800:39:14,620 --> 00:39:17,740Hey, you know what like I wrote this book and that was a really cool element55900:39:17,820 --> 00:39:22,300So let me take that and put it in the like the wonder woman pot. Oh, that was really cool56000:39:22,380 --> 00:39:24,380Let me put that into the wonder woman pot56100:39:24,700 --> 00:39:30,060so it's slowly coming together and I I really just think he was kind of like56200:39:30,060 --> 00:39:35,980Just trying a bunch of different things and then when something didn't work out. All right, let's move to the next thing, you know like56300:39:37,020 --> 00:39:42,860But eventually at the end of the day, this is kind of like prototype like rapid prototype design if you will56400:39:43,660 --> 00:39:44,700um like56500:39:44,700 --> 00:39:46,700Coming out with something that didn't work56600:39:47,340 --> 00:39:49,500Okay, try to make it better that didn't work56700:39:50,060 --> 00:39:52,060You know engineering. Mm-hmm56800:39:52,620 --> 00:39:57,580All right. So William Marston believed in female rule56900:39:57,580 --> 00:39:59,580like for instance57000:39:59,660 --> 00:40:00,620females57100:40:00,620 --> 00:40:04,220Should rule the world and he did not try to hide this57200:40:04,620 --> 00:40:07,100There's a song about that actually what song?57300:40:07,900 --> 00:40:09,340Beyonce57400:40:09,340 --> 00:40:10,940Oh, yeah57500:40:10,940 --> 00:40:12,940Women rule the world, right?57600:40:13,740 --> 00:40:17,420Yeah, in one interview he gave he actually said57700:40:18,380 --> 00:40:20,700quote the majority of men prefer to be57800:40:21,260 --> 00:40:23,260unhappy masters57900:40:23,260 --> 00:40:25,260rather than happy slaves58000:40:25,260 --> 00:40:27,260Rather than happy slaves58100:40:28,140 --> 00:40:30,140I think that's a very powerful58200:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,460statement58300:40:32,460 --> 00:40:34,780very interesting statement to me58400:40:35,740 --> 00:40:37,420this means58500:40:37,420 --> 00:40:40,940Men are born in a position where we are supposed to58600:40:41,580 --> 00:40:46,540Control we're supposed to dominate we are supposed to provide for our family58700:40:47,020 --> 00:40:50,060there's a lot of stress that goes into that and58800:40:50,060 --> 00:40:55,900And we rather be unhappy doing that being the dominating figure58900:40:56,620 --> 00:40:58,300rather than59000:40:58,300 --> 00:40:59,900letting our59100:40:59,900 --> 00:41:01,340our females59200:41:01,340 --> 00:41:02,860take over59300:41:02,860 --> 00:41:05,180And be kind of the guiding force59400:41:05,980 --> 00:41:08,540In our lives, that's that's kind of like how I took it59500:41:11,180 --> 00:41:14,140And that's not what he believed that's what he believes society believes59600:41:14,140 --> 00:41:18,940Um, right, so I mean this is what he believes that59700:41:20,060 --> 00:41:23,660Like his view of society, okay that men59800:41:24,220 --> 00:41:28,700Would rather be unhappy and rule the world rather than being happy59900:41:29,660 --> 00:41:31,660And letting women rule the world60000:41:32,460 --> 00:41:37,420And that's because of the driving force behind society that like decides60100:41:38,620 --> 00:41:41,020men have to be in charge of their household and60200:41:41,020 --> 00:41:43,660women have to cook and clean and60300:41:44,700 --> 00:41:47,820With his lifestyle background it makes sense that he's kind of like over it60400:41:48,700 --> 00:41:54,620I think you think I think his like submissive side is really kind of shining here60500:41:55,740 --> 00:41:57,260because60600:41:57,260 --> 00:42:02,220This is something that like I very much like struggle with of like just letting go60700:42:02,620 --> 00:42:05,900You know, I do get caught up in this like mentality of like60800:42:06,460 --> 00:42:09,820Okay, like I'm supposed to I'm supposed to do something. I'm supposed to60900:42:09,820 --> 00:42:11,820Like I'm supposed to provide like what I'm61000:42:12,300 --> 00:42:16,620You know me being submissive isn't normal like I'm supposed to like go out there and61100:42:17,180 --> 00:42:18,140You know61200:42:18,140 --> 00:42:20,540Do stuff I'm supposed to take charge61300:42:21,180 --> 00:42:24,780And yeah, I can kind of put that up for so long and61400:42:25,420 --> 00:42:30,140I can even have you know, a very kind of dominating61500:42:31,100 --> 00:42:33,100personality at work61600:42:33,100 --> 00:42:36,540But then at the end of the day it wears me the fuck out61700:42:36,540 --> 00:42:40,060and I get to the point where it's like, you know, I just kind of like61800:42:41,500 --> 00:42:44,620Want to like come home and be like a happy little slave. So61900:42:45,660 --> 00:42:46,940So I think62000:42:46,940 --> 00:42:52,220basically what I'm trying to say is like I believe a lot of submissive Ming like kind of go through this of62100:42:52,780 --> 00:42:57,500Like hey, this isn't normal. I need to do it. I need to do it. I need to be dominating62200:42:58,220 --> 00:42:59,660and62300:42:59,660 --> 00:43:01,660That's just natural for them, I guess62400:43:01,820 --> 00:43:03,820And it's like, you know62500:43:03,820 --> 00:43:06,620however, we are happy when62600:43:07,180 --> 00:43:09,180other people are like in charge62700:43:09,980 --> 00:43:11,980I mean, it's it's62800:43:12,620 --> 00:43:17,100Way less stressful to just be told what to do instead of having to figure out what to do62900:43:17,100 --> 00:43:19,580Yeah, so like I can understand that63000:43:20,140 --> 00:43:22,140it's a very like63100:43:22,140 --> 00:43:23,180deep63200:43:23,180 --> 00:43:27,180Conversation of I don't know submissive men63300:43:28,140 --> 00:43:30,540Because I do I do believe it's different there63400:43:30,540 --> 00:43:33,900I think in BDSM itself. There's a lot of63500:43:34,620 --> 00:43:35,660You know63600:43:35,660 --> 00:43:39,820Stigmatism that goes along with that but if you also are a submissive male63700:43:40,380 --> 00:43:46,700That does take it to like a next level because you are not only are you doing something that's like viewed as very63800:43:47,420 --> 00:43:48,700perverse63900:43:48,700 --> 00:43:54,700You're also doing something that goes against like who you're supposed to be like as a in a society society64000:43:55,340 --> 00:43:57,820You know, you're supposed to be dominating you're supposed to be the provider64100:43:57,820 --> 00:43:59,980and then64200:43:59,980 --> 00:44:02,380On top of that. I've actually been asked64300:44:03,420 --> 00:44:06,860A few times like okay, so you're you're a sub64400:44:07,660 --> 00:44:10,940So are you gay or bi and it's like no why?64500:44:11,500 --> 00:44:13,500Why do I have to be gay or bi?64600:44:14,140 --> 00:44:19,980To be a sub and it's like oh well, don't you want someone strong and powerful to like take charge and it's like64700:44:20,780 --> 00:44:21,980a woman64800:44:21,980 --> 00:44:24,860Women can be strong and powerful too. Like yeah64900:44:24,860 --> 00:44:27,260It's just something that like when I read it65000:44:27,660 --> 00:44:29,660I was like, yes65100:44:30,300 --> 00:44:32,300Mm-hmm. I don't know65200:44:32,700 --> 00:44:34,700I think that's funny that you get asked that65300:44:35,740 --> 00:44:41,340Yes, that was that was kind of my mom's first question when I came out I was being trans she's like65400:44:41,820 --> 00:44:43,820So you're like gay?65500:44:44,540 --> 00:44:46,540And yeah, I had a similar65600:44:47,180 --> 00:44:48,700No65700:44:48,700 --> 00:44:50,700But sort of65800:44:51,260 --> 00:44:53,260Kind of yeah65900:44:53,260 --> 00:44:55,260Kind of yeah66000:44:56,940 --> 00:44:58,780A little different66100:44:58,780 --> 00:45:00,780Yeah, it's just funny that that's66200:45:00,940 --> 00:45:02,940people's first question66300:45:03,020 --> 00:45:04,700when you66400:45:04,700 --> 00:45:07,260Tell them anything about yourself. That's66500:45:08,380 --> 00:45:09,660You know66600:45:09,660 --> 00:45:16,060I think it's just against the norm. Yeah, I think anything that's against the norm people just they're just not so it's gay66700:45:16,700 --> 00:45:20,060Yeah, they're just not knowledgeable of it. So they're trying to66800:45:20,060 --> 00:45:23,740They're trying to make connections that aren't necessarily there66900:45:24,220 --> 00:45:31,900It's just a little bit of bud light in it. Not a full can like half can. Oh, so you're submissive. So how much bud light do you drink?67000:45:33,180 --> 00:45:34,780All right, so67100:45:34,780 --> 00:45:36,780We covered William Marston67200:45:37,180 --> 00:45:39,420Kind of ending his academic career67300:45:40,060 --> 00:45:47,100Also something that happened in 1931 is that he kind of loses the fight or at least a major67400:45:47,100 --> 00:45:49,900battle on the lie detector front67500:45:50,300 --> 00:45:51,500so67600:45:51,500 --> 00:45:53,500Previously on an episode we covered67700:45:53,900 --> 00:45:59,580William Marston was trying to get his lie detector or the blood pressure cuff used in a67800:46:00,460 --> 00:46:02,460court system67900:46:02,460 --> 00:46:09,020Where it would kind of like replace a jury or actually like help a jury decide who was telling the truth and who wasn't68000:46:09,500 --> 00:46:10,940however in68100:46:10,940 --> 00:46:15,3401931 a person that actually replaced William at Universal Studios68200:46:15,340 --> 00:46:17,340ironically68300:46:17,340 --> 00:46:19,340beat him to a US patent68400:46:19,900 --> 00:46:21,900for the lie detector68500:46:21,900 --> 00:46:23,900And what?68600:46:23,900 --> 00:46:25,920Yes, and he actually was successful68700:46:26,620 --> 00:46:30,860So William Marston, he tried to go from the court system down68800:46:31,180 --> 00:46:34,300This person actually came in and decided to do the reverse68900:46:34,860 --> 00:46:40,780He started selling it to police stations and wanted to go from police stations up69000:46:40,780 --> 00:46:47,340So whereas like judges thought the technology wasn't like far enough along to be used in a courtroom69100:46:47,660 --> 00:46:51,500Police stations were like, oh this could be helpful. They're just using it for the data69200:46:52,540 --> 00:46:53,500Yeah69300:46:53,500 --> 00:46:56,620In in general, right? Right. Okay69400:46:57,580 --> 00:47:02,060But I do believe that this is a this is another heavy blow for William Marston69500:47:02,060 --> 00:47:08,540I mean the two things that he has spent if you will the majority of his life working on the lie detector69600:47:08,540 --> 00:47:13,420The lie detector his academic career. They're they're crumbling away69700:47:13,980 --> 00:47:19,740And some fool at Warner Brothers where he used to work was like i'm gonna do the same thing69800:47:20,780 --> 00:47:22,780This this happens all the time69900:47:23,020 --> 00:47:24,700I mean70000:47:24,700 --> 00:47:26,060It's shitty70100:47:26,060 --> 00:47:28,060But it does happen70200:47:28,460 --> 00:47:30,460for instance70300:47:30,620 --> 00:47:36,540There was a there was a moment in college where a friend of mine had this really great idea for something70400:47:36,540 --> 00:47:39,020Uh, he wrote a college paper about it70500:47:40,140 --> 00:47:44,460And he wasn't shy about sharing his idea and somebody70600:47:45,020 --> 00:47:50,140Took that idea and made a company for it and it's it's a still a company today70700:47:50,140 --> 00:47:52,140So be careful with your ideas70800:47:52,140 --> 00:47:57,660Yes rule one if you have an idea be careful with who you share it with70900:47:59,020 --> 00:48:05,020Or have them sign like an nda that helps ironically the person that stole his idea didn't71000:48:05,020 --> 00:48:10,380Understand the engineering behind it and try to hire my friend to help him with the company71100:48:11,020 --> 00:48:15,980My friend was like no, but he's like no i'm not gonna help you with my idea. Yeah71200:48:18,620 --> 00:48:24,540That's actually how my friend found out that he was making a company for the idea that he had that he had yeah71300:48:25,340 --> 00:48:31,420But again one door closes another one opens up. I believe my friend is very happy with his current career71400:48:31,420 --> 00:48:36,860So it's it kind of panned out. But again if you have a good business idea71500:48:38,700 --> 00:48:40,700Tell us about it71600:48:40,700 --> 00:48:44,220But you should protect you should protect your idea in any way that you can71700:48:45,180 --> 00:48:47,580Yeah, send them to us. All right71800:48:48,940 --> 00:48:49,980So71900:48:49,980 --> 00:48:51,980What are we going to talk about next time?72000:48:51,980 --> 00:48:58,140Next time we're going to kind of cover like the family front who has what children at what time?72100:48:58,140 --> 00:49:02,860We're going to cover the lie so like olive's story72200:49:03,740 --> 00:49:04,780it72300:49:04,780 --> 00:49:09,420Olive is taking care of these children. Some are hers. Some are not hers72400:49:09,660 --> 00:49:11,660So they had to develop a story72500:49:12,380 --> 00:49:17,580A backstory of why she's there with the family who are all these children72600:49:18,300 --> 00:49:21,500The cover-up story we're gonna we didn't get into it this72700:49:22,060 --> 00:49:25,340Episode but we're gonna cover kind of living life as a lie72800:49:25,340 --> 00:49:29,340Something that I believe all three of us have kind of experience in72900:49:30,300 --> 00:49:32,300We're gonna cover the FBI73000:49:32,700 --> 00:49:36,220Getting introduced into the story the FBI gets involved73100:49:37,100 --> 00:49:39,100Yep, FBI. Wow73200:49:39,660 --> 00:49:43,260And then if we have time, we're gonna cover kind of William Marston's73300:49:44,060 --> 00:49:48,060struggle to be a salesman kind of pushing the lie detector73400:49:48,860 --> 00:49:51,260some defeats that he had there and73500:49:51,260 --> 00:49:57,580Finally, we're gonna see the birth of comics. I'm not sure if we're gonna have enough time for the next episode73600:49:57,580 --> 00:49:59,580But we are getting very close73700:50:00,060 --> 00:50:04,220To the birth of comics birth of comic exciting. Yeah73800:50:05,180 --> 00:50:07,420Thanks for tuning in and hanging out with us73900:50:07,900 --> 00:50:12,460We're unnatural to some be sure to also follow us on twitter instagram74000:50:13,180 --> 00:50:17,500And yeah, join our discord and kind of interact and mingle with us more74100:50:17,500 --> 00:50:25,020And donate us stuff on ko-fi so we can get more coffee. Yes, if you enjoyed this episode, please74200:50:25,580 --> 00:50:27,580Give us a coffee on ko-fi74300:50:28,220 --> 00:50:29,740Because we love coffee74400:50:29,740 --> 00:50:31,740We love coffee74500:50:32,540 --> 00:50:34,860Keeps us functioning. Thanks for hanging out74600:50:35,420 --> 00:50:40,860Until next time i'm nicky sapphire and this is jay wheeler reminding you to stay kinky74700:50:40,860 --> 00:50:43,740It's your girl jenny banks and i'll be seeing you tomorrow74800:50:43,740 --> 00:50:45,740You