Episode 4: William Marston Pt4 - Blacklisted?

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,440 Disclaimer. This podcast features explicit language and discussion sexual nature. It may contain subjects and comfortable to some 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:13,280 Please understand that the opinions shared on this podcast are not a representation of any organization or employer. The host may be a part of 3 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,880 Do you get asked if you're gay a lot 4 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:32,080 Because of that at that same park that we went to mm-hmm for kayaking I actually got like kind of hit on 5 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,920 Got like man called 6 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,580 Like oh you mean cat called for men. Yeah, okay 7 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,040 Wolf called I don't know what the 8 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,440 So 9 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,600 What's your name again 10 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:57,200 Beard man, so beard man. So what are we gonna talk about today? 11 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:05,680 We're gonna talk about you know did talking about sex ruin William Marston's career or more so how he went about it 12 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:13,440 So you when you mean did sex ruin his career like did him getting involved with 13 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,120 Olive and Sadie or like did him getting 14 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:28,240 Involved with BDSM or both so one thing when I was doing the research people continuously went back on and even 15 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:36,320 Hoover kind of notated and official FBI reports was that his research was very 16 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,520 One-sided or influenced by his own personal 17 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:49,560 Her personal preferences so he wasn't what we would call today doing the scientific method 18 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:56,480 He kind of started with hey, I'm into you like BDSM. How do I incorporate that into my research? 19 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,400 How do I study the things that I like? 20 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,840 right 21 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,120 But did he do it in an appropriate way? 22 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,080 Because like for instance famous psychologist Freud 23 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,600 He's very famous about talking about sex and he was highly regarded 24 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,800 Mm-hmm William Marston does research on sex and kind of goes into sex and he 25 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,080 Does not have yeah, he doesn't have the same success isn't same 26 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:25,240 outcome 27 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,240 What else are we talking about? 28 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:33,000 We're gonna talk about William Marston going to work for Universal Studios and working on a few movies 29 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,000 He went from educator to screenwriter 30 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,600 Yes, okay 31 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,400 And really kind of just anything he could do 32 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,320 So he did write a couple of fictional books 33 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,280 During that time period he he tries to sell his lie detector 34 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,680 We kind of go over him losing a very major lie detector fight 35 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,400 over like the patent 36 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,400 just kind of 37 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,000 Trying to market it. I believe because most people 38 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:09,320 I guess didn't believe in it at the time and a lot of people still don't believe in it today his marketing approach was 39 00:03:10,100 --> 00:03:14,940 Unsuccessful whereas somebody else kind of comes in and has the correct approach 40 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:21,960 Got it. Okay, depending on how much time we have today. We're gonna talk about living life as a lie 41 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:27,560 Oh my god, you know, that's really relatable because like 42 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,080 You live your life as a lie? No pre-transition 43 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:38,360 That was definitely I was trying to be honest. It's okay. You can be being please be yourself now. It's safe 44 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:45,640 I am myself now. That's come out. It's okay. Come out here. Come on. Let's let's see the real 45 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:47,320 Ginny bangs 46 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:53,320 Yeah, come out of the closet. Whoa, I'm crazy. You'd tell us if you thought we were crazy, right? No 47 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:59,000 No, I think that's like the first rule when you think someone's crazy is you do not mention 48 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:04,520 The fact that they're crazy. Yeah, you just give them treats and yeah, and you'd be very nice to them and kind wait a second 49 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,560 You just wait a second 50 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:15,640 Come to the studio every Sunday and just record with them and just record with them and not lose your mind 51 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,000 So 52 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,280 William Marston, William Marston, William Marston 53 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,920 We left off last time where we were getting into 54 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:32,760 The good like the stuff that was relating to the movie. We talked about like college shminkings 55 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:40,440 Last we spoke it was about Sadie being introduced into the relationship and then 56 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,200 Jay talked with me and you a little bit about people coming into our relationship 57 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,720 Yeah, that's true. So yes, it didn't sound like William 58 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:54,520 Introduced 59 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,520 Uh olive the most ethical way into their relationship 60 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:04,120 Yeah, yeah, I agree with that statement wholeheartedly it was kind of like 61 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,480 Yeah, so this is olive and she's staying 62 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,560 So you better 63 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:16,440 You better be okay with it. Yeah, you better get behind it or you know, it's over 64 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:22,680 And also kind of going back to a previous episode when I mentioned that 65 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,560 When I mentioned that William kind of forced Sadie to change her first name 66 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,880 You kind of made a comment of like well, there could have been like a lot of reasons for that 67 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:38,520 And I was like, oh, we'll just wait like yeah. So now so this is a callback. This is a callback. Oh my god 68 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,760 Even though Sadie liked her name 69 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,040 William convinced her to change her name 70 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,760 to Betty Marston 71 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,760 So we don't know the purpose of that there may be a fundamental reason that we just 72 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,360 Don't know because time correct. Yeah 73 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,040 So I just thought it was like a little odd 74 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,320 Yeah, well, there might be more to that. It might not be that he pushed for that. So we're gonna revisit that 75 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,720 So now that you know a little bit more about how he handles some kind of situations 76 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,520 What are your thoughts now? 77 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,720 What do you mean as far as like him 78 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:25,240 As a person as a whole or like how he handles relation his relationship just more so so I get a sense that 79 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,120 Yes, he 80 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,320 He kind of falls into like submissive side of 81 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:37,320 Kinky bdsm stuff. However, there are times where he does appear to be very 82 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,680 Controlling yeah 83 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,200 Well, I mean, yeah, he kind of selfishly imposed 84 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:51,400 All of into the relationship it seems and then with the changing uh, making Sadie change her name 85 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:59,720 Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's kind of confusing. Maybe he's more of like a switch role 86 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:01,480 than he 87 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:02,600 it's like 88 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,600 Maybe there wasn't like a thing about like being switch. You're either 89 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:13,000 Sub or you're dominant, you know, so even today. I think there's a mindset of you either have to be like a dom or a sub 90 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,000 It can't be a switch 91 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,680 But there's also a lot of different relationships styles 92 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:26,840 Within like bdsm or like the kinky sphere of things the multiverse of things the multiverse of kink 93 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:32,840 Yes, what? Whoa, because you can have a ds relationship. You can have an ms relationship. You have a 94 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:39,080 There's a multiverse. Yeah, i'm gonna say that one more time multiverse of kink and that's now copyrighted 95 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,800 No, i'm kidding. There's a multiverse 96 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,080 Yeah, and you can even have a flr relationship 97 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,360 Which was female led relationship? 98 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:55,720 Which necessarily has nothing to do with bdsm or is ours a female led relationship? 99 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,640 Yeah, I would say that 100 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,440 Yeah, I would assume so yeah 101 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:09,880 Even though we're switching the roles of who leads but we're both yeah, I guess our boyfriend does kind of go 102 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:16,040 With whatever we decide when he's here. It's definitely a shared thing. We don't 103 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:17,560 We don't 104 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,800 Run things but he likes being told to do yeah. Yeah 105 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,600 I agree 106 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,400 I agree and there's different there's different levels to all of those relationship styles 107 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,080 And I actually kind of want to do an episode about that breaking that down further one time, but 108 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,720 I digress 109 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,400 Actually something I do want to bring up is what happened in our discord 110 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,400 Oh, we have a discord. We do have a discord 111 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,560 What you can go ahead and join join you have the chance. Yes 112 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,920 So someone brought up 113 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,400 I believe it was the second episode of william arston how we talked about 114 00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:59,320 um 115 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,320 ethyl and margaret 116 00:09:01,860 --> 00:09:03,860 sanger 117 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,920 Yes, I did look back and figure out how to pronounce her name. I'm sorry 118 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,620 I guess we came across very critical on sanger's 119 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,080 view 120 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,080 or decision on actually 121 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,000 Taking the step to remove ethyl from the women's rights 122 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,960 fight, yeah 123 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,640 and 124 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:33,800 You know going back and kind of thinking about it me personally as an only child. I always wanted to have a sibling 125 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:40,760 I I think if I was in the same position and this is easy for me to say because yeah 126 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,040 Totally not in that situation 127 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,200 but 128 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,160 You know if I had a sibling who was suffering who had 129 00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:55,080 Potentially, you know, they could die in prison essentially it was like hey 130 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,360 You know if you do this one little thing, we'll let her out. Everything will be fine 131 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:08,200 I think I would do it. I do I think it's hard because we're looking back at history and we know what happens going forward 132 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,920 sanger goes on to be 133 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,720 one of the most 134 00:10:13,780 --> 00:10:15,000 influential 135 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,840 women's rights activists 136 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,520 Period and ethyl was removed from kind of that fight 137 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:28,120 I so there's that one aspect. I will say also from my understanding of kind of looking into a few things 138 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:33,080 I do feel like ethyl was willing to do whatever it took for women's rights 139 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:41,320 So for instance dying in prison, like if if she was going to become a martyr, so be it and margo was like very in charge of 140 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:46,840 of political movements, I think she was a little bit more political. I think she realized hey 141 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:53,720 Yes, i'm willing to do tying yourself against the fence. Yeah, for example with other women's uh women 142 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:59,240 Wow tying themselves up with chains and stuff in front of the white house as a protest movement 143 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:06,200 For example, yeah very political. I think she realized like hey, i'm willing to do whatever it takes. However, if I die 144 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,960 You know, I can't continue fighting so she was a little bit more 145 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,300 political and 146 00:11:13,420 --> 00:11:16,220 Wanting to stay around to see the fight out. Yeah 147 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:18,540 Yeah, that makes sense 148 00:11:18,540 --> 00:11:19,740 they I 149 00:11:19,740 --> 00:11:20,940 so 150 00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:22,940 I do have a sister and 151 00:11:24,460 --> 00:11:28,460 We're so this is coming from someone that's not close to their sibling 152 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:32,780 I think it depends on their relationship as far as like 153 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:35,500 whether or not 154 00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:37,660 Margaret was going to take ethyl out 155 00:11:37,660 --> 00:11:41,100 because if they had an estranged relationship 156 00:11:41,820 --> 00:11:43,820 and they barely talked 157 00:11:44,220 --> 00:11:50,380 Margaret might be like well, she's fighting for a cause. This is huge. She's fighting for the same cause that I am 158 00:11:50,860 --> 00:11:54,540 I'm gonna leave her there even though it might be the risk of her life 159 00:11:55,020 --> 00:11:59,180 If they're close super close, it doesn't matter how how 160 00:11:59,740 --> 00:12:05,580 Passionate they are about the fight. They care more about each other and the well-being of each other than the fight 161 00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:08,220 The fear of losing a loved one. Yeah, exactly 162 00:12:08,780 --> 00:12:13,580 And I think that very much has to do with how you're one brought up with your family 163 00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:19,980 closeness of your family and then to how close you are with that sibling later on when you're an adult because 164 00:12:20,300 --> 00:12:23,340 You know some siblings stay close forever. Yeah, some 165 00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:27,180 Stay close when they're kids, you know go their own ways when they're adults 166 00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:34,380 Some are never close some never know each other. So that's just my personal opinion from where I'm at with my sister 167 00:12:34,380 --> 00:12:37,820 You know and I will say I was in a situation 168 00:12:38,540 --> 00:12:41,020 a few years ago where 169 00:12:42,220 --> 00:12:48,620 A friend of mine. She told me some pretty dark stuff. I know I knew that she was struggling with some mental health things 170 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,300 I was working with her on those fronts 171 00:12:54,380 --> 00:12:59,420 She told me a few things like hey, I'm gonna tell I'm gonna tell you but you have to promise not to tell anyone 172 00:13:00,300 --> 00:13:02,300 and then when I heard it I 173 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:04,300 Literally told her I'm 174 00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:06,380 Look, I'm sorry 175 00:13:06,380 --> 00:13:08,380 You're probably going to hate me for this 176 00:13:09,260 --> 00:13:15,660 But at least you'll be around to hate me for the rest of your life, but I am contacting your your therapist 177 00:13:16,220 --> 00:13:17,020 Yeah 178 00:13:17,020 --> 00:13:19,980 And I did like contact her therapist and report her 179 00:13:20,620 --> 00:13:25,180 And no, she didn't end up she she hated I think she hated me in the moment 180 00:13:25,180 --> 00:13:29,100 But like we're fine today, but yeah in that split decision 181 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:35,260 I was like, hey, I rather you be around and hate me rather than being dead 182 00:13:35,260 --> 00:13:38,060 Yeah, that's our decision to make and 183 00:13:39,980 --> 00:13:44,380 You want to do the right thing and keeping the person you love around 184 00:13:44,380 --> 00:13:47,580 It's always gonna outweigh those other choices. I think yeah 185 00:13:48,140 --> 00:13:50,860 All right. So jumping into this week's episode 186 00:13:51,580 --> 00:13:56,300 When William Marsden was doing the research for his book emotions of normal people 187 00:13:56,300 --> 00:13:58,940 How did he do that research? Uh, I don't know 188 00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:03,340 He actually basically had what I would consider sex parties 189 00:14:04,140 --> 00:14:07,500 He held sex parties to conduct research 190 00:14:08,220 --> 00:14:12,220 Yes, and there are 95 pages of typed notes 191 00:14:12,940 --> 00:14:14,140 of him 192 00:14:14,140 --> 00:14:16,940 Describing these sex parties in his defense 193 00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:19,900 He didn't really have google 194 00:14:20,380 --> 00:14:22,380 He was doing research which 195 00:14:22,940 --> 00:14:24,460 Does not have a research 196 00:14:24,460 --> 00:14:26,460 which does 197 00:14:28,140 --> 00:14:30,460 You know, you can find a lot of porn on google 198 00:14:31,020 --> 00:14:35,100 Is he wearing a lab coat while doing this research in the sex party? 199 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:37,340 What do you mean by lab coat? Do you mean like a condom? 200 00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:39,500 No 201 00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:44,380 Well, is he wearing a lab coat and a condom while doing this research? 202 00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:47,420 Imagine lying to women about your lab coat 203 00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:54,300 But I just imagine like showing up for you know, like oh i'm gonna go to this famous 204 00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:00,700 Psychologist for some research that he's doing and then it's like, oh, this is a sex party 205 00:15:01,180 --> 00:15:03,180 Oh, this is 206 00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:05,740 Pulls out his beaker set 207 00:15:07,900 --> 00:15:09,900 Sex is fun 208 00:15:10,540 --> 00:15:13,500 Learning that i'm thinking about the research with sex parties 209 00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:20,700 I'm literally thinking about like guys in lab coats fucking people and like having a clipboard and taking notes while doing so 210 00:15:21,180 --> 00:15:23,820 Learning and when they when they come they're just like 211 00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:26,460 Oh interesting 212 00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:28,620 They mark it down on their clipboard 213 00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:31,500 Learning is fun 214 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:33,500 Learning is fun and sexy 215 00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:35,740 And sexy and sexy 216 00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:39,420 So during these sex parties he had what he described 217 00:15:41,180 --> 00:15:43,180 Love leaders 218 00:15:43,180 --> 00:15:45,180 Love leaders mistresses 219 00:15:45,980 --> 00:15:46,780 and 220 00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:50,700 Love girls those that that was the terminology that he used 221 00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:55,260 Uh, so love girls wore no clothes at any time 222 00:15:56,140 --> 00:15:57,740 kind of 223 00:15:57,740 --> 00:16:04,940 If we're jumping into like a bdsm porno, this would be a sex slave from my gathering 224 00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:08,220 A love girl a love girl 225 00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:11,020 In his in his notes 226 00:16:11,020 --> 00:16:13,820 He wrote love girl is just a girl that's always naked 227 00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:17,100 Okay, and then what are the other two? 228 00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:24,300 Uh, so you have love leaders and mistresses. What's the difference? So the difference I was very unclear about 229 00:16:25,020 --> 00:16:31,580 um, maybe I got like just too preoccupied with with reading the research, you know, but uh, 230 00:16:32,940 --> 00:16:34,940 No, so love leaders 231 00:16:35,020 --> 00:16:39,100 Or mistresses would use their bodies to make men submit to them 232 00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:44,540 And then they were kind of like used to keep the passion going during sex 233 00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:49,100 Now interesting. Yeah, and what's also interesting is during sex 234 00:16:49,980 --> 00:16:53,100 Males were supposed to keep themselves in check 235 00:16:53,660 --> 00:16:54,620 quote 236 00:16:54,620 --> 00:16:57,100 In check. What does he mean by that? 237 00:16:57,820 --> 00:17:03,580 Trying to not have an orgasm so being denied an orgasm. Oh edging. Yes 238 00:17:03,580 --> 00:17:04,540 Oh 239 00:17:04,540 --> 00:17:05,900 interesting 240 00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:09,900 So it was like kind of like require well requirement is just like 241 00:17:10,620 --> 00:17:12,300 Edging yourself 242 00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:16,060 Yeah, very part of the sex party. You have to be really good at edging 243 00:17:17,180 --> 00:17:23,660 Just saying maybe i'll go back and do like a deep dive into the 95 pages of notes, but 244 00:17:24,380 --> 00:17:28,060 Yes, like it's public releases notes on those sex parties 245 00:17:28,780 --> 00:17:33,900 Uh, yeah, i'm pretty sure that we can still access them today. They're not in name of his books or anything 246 00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:38,060 I mean keep in mind i'm reading the my main source of research 247 00:17:38,860 --> 00:17:41,420 for this topic came from the 248 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:45,820 Wonder woman a secret history. I believe the one that's 249 00:17:46,460 --> 00:17:51,340 Right there the secret history of wonder woman. Yeah, so very pretty cover. I like it 250 00:17:51,340 --> 00:17:54,380 Isn't that like an original artwork from his comic? Yes 251 00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:58,620 So this was my number one source of research 252 00:17:59,660 --> 00:18:02,380 It's an amazing book. We do not cover everything 253 00:18:02,380 --> 00:18:08,380 That this that is in this book. She did such a great job with research 254 00:18:08,780 --> 00:18:10,780 this giant section 255 00:18:11,180 --> 00:18:13,980 Of the book is her sources 256 00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:18,060 So this is her citing all of her sources of 257 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,660 The research that she did it's it's insane. I mean it's 258 00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:26,460 You know, it starts on page 324 and it ends on page 259 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:29,500 434 so 260 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:31,980 You know over a hundred pages of just typed 261 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:39,900 Like references for her research. So this was my main source of um of research. This is was 262 00:18:40,540 --> 00:18:45,180 Essentially for our research. It was the holy bible or the holy grail if you will 263 00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:51,740 The emotions of normal people I was really trying to get a sense of more so of 264 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:54,300 How william kind of thought? 265 00:18:54,780 --> 00:18:56,300 And then the comic 266 00:18:56,300 --> 00:19:03,100 Books I was mainly kind of looking you know, is there a lot of bdsm themes in his comics? 267 00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:04,860 but 268 00:19:04,860 --> 00:19:10,060 So no, I did not go into a deep dive into the 95 pages of notes also 269 00:19:10,620 --> 00:19:14,140 It was something that I like setting out to do research. I was like, oh, yes 270 00:19:14,140 --> 00:19:15,820 I'm going to read everything that he wrote 271 00:19:15,820 --> 00:19:22,300 He wrote a lot of fiction books and a lot of screen rights and it was it would be impossible 272 00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:23,820 I would still be doing the research 273 00:19:23,820 --> 00:19:30,220 I think we would have to have like a team of like five researchers just dedicated to come through literally everything that he wrote 274 00:19:30,860 --> 00:19:36,220 So we don't have a team of researchers yet. No, we just have scooby get on it scooby 275 00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:44,380 He's gonna get on it he's gonna get on I can't see there he is yeah, that's 276 00:19:45,580 --> 00:19:50,540 That's our research dog right there. He researches everything. He's very intelligent. Look at his eyes 277 00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:52,540 He's very intelligent look at his eyes 278 00:19:53,980 --> 00:19:56,140 But no, so 279 00:19:56,140 --> 00:19:59,740 I'm relying on the research that someone else did keep that in mind 280 00:20:00,460 --> 00:20:02,460 um, but going back to it 281 00:20:03,020 --> 00:20:05,020 So you can tell jill of course 282 00:20:05,260 --> 00:20:12,300 Oh, yeah good at what the research session like that's an insane amount of sighting. Yeah, and to also like 283 00:20:12,940 --> 00:20:14,940 Put it down in your book like that 284 00:20:15,020 --> 00:20:16,860 That's yeah 285 00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:21,420 So jumping back into it. It is said that william arston was fascinated with quote 286 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:26,300 Captivation and this is what we might call bondage today 287 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,720 Captivation he was fascinated with captivation 288 00:20:32,060 --> 00:20:33,100 so 289 00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:34,300 they 290 00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:36,300 Bdsm was referred to as 291 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,940 Captivation or it's what we might consider 292 00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:41,900 Bondage today, huh? 293 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,700 Back then it was called captivation. That's what 294 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:50,860 It's what we're kind of gathering scientifically. He's talking about captivation. We think he's talking about bondage 295 00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:57,020 Which carries into wonder woman that is called bondage now captivation doesn't sound very 296 00:20:57,580 --> 00:20:59,740 It sounds pretty captivating captivate me 297 00:21:00,860 --> 00:21:06,540 I don't know. I don't know. I feel like when I hear the word captivation. I think of like someone like being captured 298 00:21:06,540 --> 00:21:14,140 Uh, hello. Do you want to go back to my place for some captivation play? 299 00:21:15,660 --> 00:21:18,220 I that does not sound sexy at all 300 00:21:19,820 --> 00:21:24,300 You sure look captivating. Okay, so that's better use of the word but 301 00:21:25,020 --> 00:21:29,420 Uh, do I just love it when you're on the floor all captivated? 302 00:21:29,420 --> 00:21:35,020 Sweet here's some rope. Could you maybe captivate me real quick? 303 00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:42,540 All right, can we can we go all right, let's uh, yeah, so what what's going what's kind of going on here so 304 00:21:43,420 --> 00:21:47,740 At this time period william arson kind of wanted free love 305 00:21:48,540 --> 00:21:50,540 Olive wanted a family 306 00:21:50,540 --> 00:21:57,180 Sadie wanted to have children, but she did not want to be she didn't want having children to hinder her career 307 00:21:57,180 --> 00:22:01,580 She was very focused on her career. She wasn't gonna let like being a woman stop her 308 00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:08,460 She did want children, but she wanted someone to kind of take care of those kids. Oh look olive and william's 309 00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:12,460 Thinking to himself. I'm gonna put babies in both of these girls 310 00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:16,220 I mean he does I know. Yeah, and he's like 311 00:22:17,020 --> 00:22:22,140 Everything i've heard about her so far. She's just freaking amazing. She's like a modern day woman from today 312 00:22:23,260 --> 00:22:25,340 Back then like she's wonder woman 313 00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:31,100 I she should be called modern woman that I I bet you people were so intimidated by her 314 00:22:31,660 --> 00:22:37,100 So intimidated just because she was a go-getter. She was like a lot like willing probably a go-getter 315 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,340 And got her goals and set high goals and achieve them 316 00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:45,820 So olive does go on to get her masters in 1927 317 00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:49,740 in psychology at columbia university 318 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:56,300 And later that year william was hired as a lecturer which is below assistant professor 319 00:22:56,940 --> 00:23:01,980 So he's continuing to fall down. Yeah, the the academic ladder year 320 00:23:02,860 --> 00:23:10,860 It is noted that olive does want to get her phd. It was urged to quit by her professors because she was a woman 321 00:23:11,660 --> 00:23:12,460 and 322 00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:14,480 Not a lot of jobs for phd 323 00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,500 graduates at this time 324 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:19,420 essentially 325 00:23:19,420 --> 00:23:21,420 Also in this time of her life 326 00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:24,220 She does kind of have to stay home 327 00:23:24,780 --> 00:23:26,780 to take care of sadie's children 328 00:23:28,220 --> 00:23:29,180 So 329 00:23:29,180 --> 00:23:31,980 But I think it was a combination. I think it was a combination of 330 00:23:33,260 --> 00:23:35,980 You know kind of being urged not to pursue a phd 331 00:23:36,620 --> 00:23:42,460 Because there's you know, there's no jobs for women with phd and then also kind of at home 332 00:23:42,460 --> 00:23:45,100 Being urged to kind of stay home and take care of the children 333 00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:49,260 She had multiple things pulling her away from school. Yeah 334 00:23:49,260 --> 00:23:51,260 I mean if you think about if the people 335 00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:56,380 If your loved ones are telling you like you shouldn't do something and then you turn to your academic advisors 336 00:23:56,380 --> 00:23:58,380 And they're all telling you not to do something 337 00:23:58,620 --> 00:24:00,780 If everyone in your life is telling you not to do something 338 00:24:00,780 --> 00:24:04,300 It's very rare for someone to be like no i'm gonna go and just do it 339 00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:06,700 So yeah 340 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:12,700 So what's also key to note is sadie and olive both help write and do research 341 00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:15,340 for william arston's book 342 00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:20,300 However, he listed he's the only author that's listed of the book 343 00:24:21,020 --> 00:24:26,940 Um, he does dedicate his book to the five women in his life, but he is the sole author 344 00:24:29,020 --> 00:24:31,420 Hmm, I don't believe that's 345 00:24:32,380 --> 00:24:34,380 Fair but no 346 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:39,900 And that's again we can't reverse history, but I I still feel like that's a little kind of like 347 00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:43,020 Yeah, it's another sign of william arston wasn't actually 348 00:24:44,220 --> 00:24:48,140 That handsome suave guy from the movie. I also don't know what it 349 00:24:48,620 --> 00:24:53,500 What all goes into making a book like you said did you usually list the researchers as? 350 00:24:54,140 --> 00:25:01,340 Co-authoring or they said they helped write they helped write it. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I I got a feeling that 351 00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:06,300 They they should have been listed as authors. I think 352 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,500 I think william arston was very kind of focused on 353 00:25:09,980 --> 00:25:12,460 He wanted to be successful like him 354 00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:19,180 So he was gonna go do a bunch of stuff and like yeah, he might dedicate the book to them 355 00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:21,260 but 356 00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:27,420 At the end of the day, I think he had his own personal goals and he was gonna try to achieve them. However, he could 357 00:25:28,060 --> 00:25:30,060 So maybe there's a reason 358 00:25:30,220 --> 00:25:32,860 He didn't list them as co-authors 359 00:25:32,860 --> 00:25:35,820 He didn't list them as co-authors 360 00:25:36,540 --> 00:25:38,540 I think also 361 00:25:38,620 --> 00:25:41,900 Probably from an academic point of view keep in mind 362 00:25:42,780 --> 00:25:45,020 Women were not super respected 363 00:25:45,980 --> 00:25:52,220 So I think he wanted the book to be taken very seriously in the academic world 364 00:25:53,180 --> 00:25:54,620 And to do so 365 00:25:54,620 --> 00:25:59,980 He didn't want like he didn't want it to come across like women were writing it 366 00:25:59,980 --> 00:26:05,340 Yeah, because of right so maybe maybe that was a collective decision that they made to like hey 367 00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:10,300 Let's release it under one name. Maybe they're like both olive and 368 00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:13,580 Sadie were very progressive thinkers. So 369 00:26:14,380 --> 00:26:17,340 That might have been a decision they made together like hey 370 00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:22,540 If you want your this book that means so much to you to get to everyone and not just be 371 00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:25,660 Shut down immediately just put your name on it 372 00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:31,660 However, the book was completely ignored on the academic level the only review that 373 00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:35,020 Could be found was a review wrote by olive 374 00:26:36,780 --> 00:26:38,460 So 375 00:26:38,460 --> 00:26:41,100 Wow, yep. Okay, she reviewed 376 00:26:41,980 --> 00:26:43,980 the book that she was 377 00:26:44,060 --> 00:26:48,940 Perfect in writing. Oh, yeah. I mean keep in mind. I believe we covered this 378 00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:54,860 Olive was writing for a magazine and she would kind of pretend to not know william marston and 379 00:26:55,580 --> 00:26:59,980 She would interview this great psychologist. Oh, yeah, I forgot. Yeah 380 00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:03,100 So that's true 381 00:27:03,340 --> 00:27:10,380 Conflict of interest kind of unethical. Yeah, but at the same time it helps her family so I could see her reasoning 382 00:27:10,380 --> 00:27:14,940 Yeah, I mean, it's also unethical the way they were treating women. So more power to her 383 00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:20,140 More power to her now what's kind of interesting is 384 00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:27,020 After finding out that his lecture position would not be renewed at columbia. He reached out to harvard for a position 385 00:27:27,980 --> 00:27:33,660 However, he got a few mixed recommendations one being from his former advisor and professor 386 00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:38,700 Herbert langfield after speaking about him as a student 387 00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:43,020 He went on to say quote so rumors have come to me from various places 388 00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:46,000 Which I have not been able to substantiate 389 00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:54,220 It therefore makes it very difficult for me to say anything further than when he took his degree at harvard. He gave 390 00:27:54,940 --> 00:27:57,420 every promise of doing excellent work 391 00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:02,640 So what's kind of interesting here is that this letter of recommendation? 392 00:28:04,060 --> 00:28:08,540 It's the kind of thing that you would say if somebody was gay 393 00:28:08,540 --> 00:28:12,140 It's a very political nice 394 00:28:13,820 --> 00:28:16,140 Way of blacklisting somebody 395 00:28:17,820 --> 00:28:21,660 Which is exactly what happened to william and william arston would never 396 00:28:22,460 --> 00:28:24,940 He would never work in academia ever again 397 00:28:25,660 --> 00:28:27,660 Wow because of this guy's words 398 00:28:28,380 --> 00:28:29,340 Yes 399 00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:31,340 so his 400 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,480 Mentor slash professor 401 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:41,080 Yes, and he was he was also well known in the academic world, right at the time. I believe so keep in mind 402 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,880 A lot has happened. William arston has like moved around he got accused of 403 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:54,680 He got accused of fraud. It's unknown if people knew that him and olive were kind of 404 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,240 Having some maybe possibly 405 00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:00,440 Relationship on the side as he was a professor 406 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,920 He's coming out with you know research and books about sex and 407 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,720 things of that nature 408 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:08,600 so 409 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,600 It's unclear as to why 410 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,400 you know he got blacklisted but I I believe 411 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,880 it was kind of like a 412 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,600 A list of things it was you know, one thing after another I wouldn't say it's just like one thing 413 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,240 Clearly his peers 414 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,640 Kind of just looked at him as a pervert. Yes 415 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,720 And they thought he had no business around school 416 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:37,320 And in the academics in general keep in mind the book emotions of normal people 417 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,880 It does defend 418 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,080 some sexual perversions and also, you know 419 00:29:44,180 --> 00:29:45,960 homosexuality which 420 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,920 Is very much like frowned upon at this time 421 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,520 so 422 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:56,440 I I think when he was writing the book he thought it was going to be a a huge hit and this was going to like 423 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,920 kind of boost his academic career 424 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,760 And I think it was kind of the final nail in the coffin 425 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,760 I think there was a lot of nails in the coffin, but I think this was like no, I mean 426 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,200 Imagine if that book came out today 427 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:18,360 Like he would still have be facing backlash. I think like we're divided a lot over that. Yeah today 428 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:19,480 Yeah 429 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,800 Well the focus the I feel like the fight now is more focused on trans people 430 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,680 Against us, you know 431 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,320 Like it's changed it's shifted from like just 432 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:39,480 People being hateful towards gay people for now. They're hateful towards like anyone of the queer community 433 00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:42,200 Specifically going after trans people now 434 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:48,520 It's it's a scary time I think I think it still depends I one I think it depends on what part of the world you're in I 435 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,200 for instance 436 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,600 I I believe in India. It's still I don't want to say illegal 437 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,440 I'm not sure but it's very much frowned upon to be gay in India 438 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,640 And then even in the United States, there's parts of the United States where you know 439 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,000 Your career could be hindered if you're found out to be gay 440 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:13,640 But I do I do think like collectively in the United States. I do think it has kind of shifted for 441 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,920 the trans community the fight house 442 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:24,360 But I do very much kind of still think it's dependent on where you live. Yeah, and how much bud light you have 443 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,600 How much be like you get in your system? Yeah 444 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,480 I'm kind of the person that I do believe that like when one door closes 445 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:42,040 Like another door opens this is kind of like my way of thinking so a silver lining gear is that even though 446 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:48,840 William Marston never went on to work for you know in the academic realm 447 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,080 I mean 448 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,760 He does become super successful in doing what he likes to do 449 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,080 So yeah, and he gets to keep calling himself doctor. Yeah 450 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:03,080 That's very that's pretty cool that was kind of actually 451 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,880 Represented in the movie like him trying to go on with his academic career 452 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,040 And be successful with it only to have his personal life 453 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:19,560 Interfere with that and then you you see that in the movie you see he goes through a depressive period where he's not doing anything 454 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,880 They definitely illustrated 455 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,360 That he was very unhappy leaving the education world behind 456 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:31,000 I wonder if that was true or not like I wonder if he was as upset or as much 457 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,360 Like you know what I tried it was a relief to leave that because I have way better ideas because 458 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:42,600 When I'm when we're going through all this research and everything it seems like he was always like he had ideas after ideas 459 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,600 After ideas always going on, you know 460 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,320 I 461 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,320 In this regard I view him very 462 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,120 very much 463 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,240 I can kind of relate to him in this way of 464 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:04,120 You know if I was putting my myself in his shoes, it would be very devastating for me until I kind of 465 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,840 Lose this fight 466 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,480 However, I think his mentality and also my mentality is 467 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,240 Like okay, this did not work. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to be successful 468 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,560 so 469 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,560 Like hey, I hit a roadblock 470 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:29,080 Okay, just don't give up. Yeah, it's i'll find my way around that roadblock or i'm gonna kind of move on but 471 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,200 One way or another like i'm going to be successful like it's just a very 472 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,840 like determined attitude 473 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,040 Of you know, it's not working on the academic level. I'm gonna shift over 474 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,280 But I still think I still think it was devastating for him. I guess that would be very devastating 475 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,480 To lose that because like that's your life. That's your life's work 476 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:59,000 And no one's when you lose that credit from like harvard of all places the place you got your degrees from 477 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,280 It's like no one's gonna believe you anymore. Yeah 478 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,800 No one's gonna listen to you. They took away his credibility for 479 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,760 Everything. Yeah, I I think I can definitely relate to this because 480 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,380 For instance like I was in a management position 481 00:34:14,380 --> 00:34:18,220 And I got very frustrated with it and I was like, you know what like 482 00:34:18,940 --> 00:34:20,940 Fine. Forget this 483 00:34:21,420 --> 00:34:27,260 Um, i'm gonna go into like an entirely different career path. I'm gonna go back to college. I'm gonna get a degree 484 00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:29,980 I'm gonna become an engineer 485 00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:31,900 Okay, like 486 00:34:31,900 --> 00:34:33,900 I've made it and then 487 00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:37,820 Being an engineer and being frustrated at being an engineer 488 00:34:38,460 --> 00:34:41,580 Like okay. Well, you know, i'm gonna also be a engineer 489 00:34:41,580 --> 00:34:44,620 like okay, well, you know, i'm gonna also on the side do 490 00:34:45,420 --> 00:34:47,420 a podcast and it's 491 00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:49,500 I think 492 00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:51,500 for me 493 00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:53,500 He's very determined 494 00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:58,540 But he's also shifting in a lot of different ways to try to see like where he fits in 495 00:34:58,940 --> 00:35:02,380 And I think like the whole academic door was like a slap in the face 496 00:35:03,180 --> 00:35:05,660 And I do think it hurt him keep in mind 497 00:35:05,660 --> 00:35:12,460 Keep in mind unlike the movie. This is a guy that he went from being a football player 498 00:35:13,020 --> 00:35:14,860 very much in shape 499 00:35:14,860 --> 00:35:18,060 To then weighing like over 300 pounds 500 00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:20,940 drinking all the time 501 00:35:20,940 --> 00:35:22,780 Smoking all the time 502 00:35:22,780 --> 00:35:29,020 To me, that's not somebody that thinks like oh i'm very successful and like I have everything in life 503 00:35:29,020 --> 00:35:37,500 He's very much kind of like stressed out and he's trying to find like where he fits in. That's just like my personal take on it 504 00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:39,900 Yeah, and he had a creative outlet 505 00:35:40,780 --> 00:35:43,340 That he was already comfortable with and he's probably 506 00:35:44,540 --> 00:35:47,020 Looking for new ways to reach an audience 507 00:35:48,460 --> 00:35:53,660 Because he couldn't do it in a schoolhouse anymore. Yeah, but anyways, yeah 508 00:35:53,660 --> 00:36:00,460 So William Marston at this point in his life, he goes to work at Universal Studios 509 00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:06,060 So he works as a psychologist to help with movies 510 00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:09,020 Um, he was denied a five-year contract 511 00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:11,660 He then 512 00:36:11,660 --> 00:36:13,660 worked at Paramount 513 00:36:14,140 --> 00:36:15,340 um 514 00:36:15,340 --> 00:36:19,980 Early Paramount. Yeah, and he even went on to uh start his own movie studio 515 00:36:19,980 --> 00:36:28,540 What it did fail when the stock market collapsed? I don't recall what it was called. I don't really know how far he got 516 00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:33,900 With it during this time frame in his life. He never had a job longer than one year 517 00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:36,940 So he did a lot of shifting and to me this is again 518 00:36:36,940 --> 00:36:42,700 He's trying to figure out like where do I fit in he's also trying to support a family, you know, I mean 519 00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:45,740 A large family. Yeah, it's not your traditional 520 00:36:45,740 --> 00:36:51,280 You know just a man and a woman he has a polyamory relationship 521 00:36:51,580 --> 00:36:56,300 So and did they have kids? Yeah, or read that that point in time? 522 00:36:56,300 --> 00:37:00,700 Oh, yeah, because all of it was mentioned that olive was watching Sadie 523 00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:05,980 Sadie has children and olive has gone back to take care of children. Yeah, so he he's he's got 524 00:37:06,540 --> 00:37:08,540 Starting to build quite 525 00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:11,100 A few people in his household 526 00:37:11,580 --> 00:37:14,620 Quite a family. Yeah, family is what he's building right now. Yeah 527 00:37:14,620 --> 00:37:19,180 So covering some interesting things for universal he worked on 528 00:37:19,740 --> 00:37:23,100 The showboat movie in 1929. I've never heard of this 529 00:37:23,100 --> 00:37:28,620 However, he did work on the original 1930 movie all quiet on the western front 530 00:37:28,940 --> 00:37:33,660 Which was recently remade and is on netflix today. Oh cool. Um 531 00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:38,780 They did even though he personally did not work on this 532 00:37:38,780 --> 00:37:43,100 They did use his techniques and the pressure cuffs to monitor 533 00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:45,900 audience reactions on movies such as 534 00:37:46,380 --> 00:37:47,980 The 1931 535 00:37:47,980 --> 00:37:53,580 Frankenstein the 1931 Dracula the 1933 the invisible man and the 1931 dr 536 00:37:53,580 --> 00:37:59,100 Jekyll and mr. Hyde, which is very interesting because that was his favorite book. Yeah. Yeah 537 00:37:59,580 --> 00:38:01,100 So kind of cool 538 00:38:01,100 --> 00:38:03,100 That must have been a pretty 539 00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:06,140 Like cool moment for him 540 00:38:06,620 --> 00:38:11,740 So he did write a fictional book entitled venus with us a tale of caesar 541 00:38:11,740 --> 00:38:13,740 a tale of caesar 542 00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:16,300 It's set in ancient roman times 543 00:38:16,860 --> 00:38:19,180 And it has heavy bdsm themes 544 00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:22,140 I actually kind of want to go back and read this book 545 00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:27,340 Um, but basically from what I saw it's where women are kidnapped and taken to 546 00:38:27,980 --> 00:38:29,980 the island of lesbos 547 00:38:30,220 --> 00:38:35,740 Where they would be put in heavy chains and golden collars. However, the book was not successful 548 00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:38,300 I think it was ahead of its time 549 00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:44,700 So but he's already he's already building the foundation for what is going to be 550 00:38:45,340 --> 00:38:51,260 Wonder Woman. Yeah, because he's already like, oh lesbos is a cool island to include 551 00:38:52,140 --> 00:38:53,420 Yep 552 00:38:53,420 --> 00:38:55,420 You know like he's already 553 00:38:56,620 --> 00:38:58,620 The pieces are there 554 00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:00,700 You know 555 00:39:00,700 --> 00:39:03,740 Very much. I see like him trying like oh, let me try this 556 00:39:03,740 --> 00:39:08,780 And then it doesn't work out and he's like, okay, let me try this the wonder woman target is here 557 00:39:08,780 --> 00:39:14,540 And he's throwing darts and he just hasn't hit it yet, but he's trying and I do think he's like 558 00:39:14,620 --> 00:39:17,740 Hey, you know what like I wrote this book and that was a really cool element 559 00:39:17,820 --> 00:39:22,300 So let me take that and put it in the like the wonder woman pot. Oh, that was really cool 560 00:39:22,380 --> 00:39:24,380 Let me put that into the wonder woman pot 561 00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:30,060 so it's slowly coming together and I I really just think he was kind of like 562 00:39:30,060 --> 00:39:35,980 Just trying a bunch of different things and then when something didn't work out. All right, let's move to the next thing, you know like 563 00:39:37,020 --> 00:39:42,860 But eventually at the end of the day, this is kind of like prototype like rapid prototype design if you will 564 00:39:43,660 --> 00:39:44,700 um like 565 00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:46,700 Coming out with something that didn't work 566 00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:49,500 Okay, try to make it better that didn't work 567 00:39:50,060 --> 00:39:52,060 You know engineering. Mm-hmm 568 00:39:52,620 --> 00:39:57,580 All right. So William Marston believed in female rule 569 00:39:57,580 --> 00:39:59,580 like for instance 570 00:39:59,660 --> 00:40:00,620 females 571 00:40:00,620 --> 00:40:04,220 Should rule the world and he did not try to hide this 572 00:40:04,620 --> 00:40:07,100 There's a song about that actually what song? 573 00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:09,340 Beyonce 574 00:40:09,340 --> 00:40:10,940 Oh, yeah 575 00:40:10,940 --> 00:40:12,940 Women rule the world, right? 576 00:40:13,740 --> 00:40:17,420 Yeah, in one interview he gave he actually said 577 00:40:18,380 --> 00:40:20,700 quote the majority of men prefer to be 578 00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:23,260 unhappy masters 579 00:40:23,260 --> 00:40:25,260 rather than happy slaves 580 00:40:25,260 --> 00:40:27,260 Rather than happy slaves 581 00:40:28,140 --> 00:40:30,140 I think that's a very powerful 582 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,460 statement 583 00:40:32,460 --> 00:40:34,780 very interesting statement to me 584 00:40:35,740 --> 00:40:37,420 this means 585 00:40:37,420 --> 00:40:40,940 Men are born in a position where we are supposed to 586 00:40:41,580 --> 00:40:46,540 Control we're supposed to dominate we are supposed to provide for our family 587 00:40:47,020 --> 00:40:50,060 there's a lot of stress that goes into that and 588 00:40:50,060 --> 00:40:55,900 And we rather be unhappy doing that being the dominating figure 589 00:40:56,620 --> 00:40:58,300 rather than 590 00:40:58,300 --> 00:40:59,900 letting our 591 00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:01,340 our females 592 00:41:01,340 --> 00:41:02,860 take over 593 00:41:02,860 --> 00:41:05,180 And be kind of the guiding force 594 00:41:05,980 --> 00:41:08,540 In our lives, that's that's kind of like how I took it 595 00:41:11,180 --> 00:41:14,140 And that's not what he believed that's what he believes society believes 596 00:41:14,140 --> 00:41:18,940 Um, right, so I mean this is what he believes that 597 00:41:20,060 --> 00:41:23,660 Like his view of society, okay that men 598 00:41:24,220 --> 00:41:28,700 Would rather be unhappy and rule the world rather than being happy 599 00:41:29,660 --> 00:41:31,660 And letting women rule the world 600 00:41:32,460 --> 00:41:37,420 And that's because of the driving force behind society that like decides 601 00:41:38,620 --> 00:41:41,020 men have to be in charge of their household and 602 00:41:41,020 --> 00:41:43,660 women have to cook and clean and 603 00:41:44,700 --> 00:41:47,820 With his lifestyle background it makes sense that he's kind of like over it 604 00:41:48,700 --> 00:41:54,620 I think you think I think his like submissive side is really kind of shining here 605 00:41:55,740 --> 00:41:57,260 because 606 00:41:57,260 --> 00:42:02,220 This is something that like I very much like struggle with of like just letting go 607 00:42:02,620 --> 00:42:05,900 You know, I do get caught up in this like mentality of like 608 00:42:06,460 --> 00:42:09,820 Okay, like I'm supposed to I'm supposed to do something. I'm supposed to 609 00:42:09,820 --> 00:42:11,820 Like I'm supposed to provide like what I'm 610 00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:16,620 You know me being submissive isn't normal like I'm supposed to like go out there and 611 00:42:17,180 --> 00:42:18,140 You know 612 00:42:18,140 --> 00:42:20,540 Do stuff I'm supposed to take charge 613 00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:24,780 And yeah, I can kind of put that up for so long and 614 00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:30,140 I can even have you know, a very kind of dominating 615 00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:33,100 personality at work 616 00:42:33,100 --> 00:42:36,540 But then at the end of the day it wears me the fuck out 617 00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:40,060 and I get to the point where it's like, you know, I just kind of like 618 00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:44,620 Want to like come home and be like a happy little slave. So 619 00:42:45,660 --> 00:42:46,940 So I think 620 00:42:46,940 --> 00:42:52,220 basically what I'm trying to say is like I believe a lot of submissive Ming like kind of go through this of 621 00:42:52,780 --> 00:42:57,500 Like hey, this isn't normal. I need to do it. I need to do it. I need to be dominating 622 00:42:58,220 --> 00:42:59,660 and 623 00:42:59,660 --> 00:43:01,660 That's just natural for them, I guess 624 00:43:01,820 --> 00:43:03,820 And it's like, you know 625 00:43:03,820 --> 00:43:06,620 however, we are happy when 626 00:43:07,180 --> 00:43:09,180 other people are like in charge 627 00:43:09,980 --> 00:43:11,980 I mean, it's it's 628 00:43:12,620 --> 00:43:17,100 Way less stressful to just be told what to do instead of having to figure out what to do 629 00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:19,580 Yeah, so like I can understand that 630 00:43:20,140 --> 00:43:22,140 it's a very like 631 00:43:22,140 --> 00:43:23,180 deep 632 00:43:23,180 --> 00:43:27,180 Conversation of I don't know submissive men 633 00:43:28,140 --> 00:43:30,540 Because I do I do believe it's different there 634 00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:33,900 I think in BDSM itself. There's a lot of 635 00:43:34,620 --> 00:43:35,660 You know 636 00:43:35,660 --> 00:43:39,820 Stigmatism that goes along with that but if you also are a submissive male 637 00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:46,700 That does take it to like a next level because you are not only are you doing something that's like viewed as very 638 00:43:47,420 --> 00:43:48,700 perverse 639 00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:54,700 You're also doing something that goes against like who you're supposed to be like as a in a society society 640 00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:57,820 You know, you're supposed to be dominating you're supposed to be the provider 641 00:43:57,820 --> 00:43:59,980 and then 642 00:43:59,980 --> 00:44:02,380 On top of that. I've actually been asked 643 00:44:03,420 --> 00:44:06,860 A few times like okay, so you're you're a sub 644 00:44:07,660 --> 00:44:10,940 So are you gay or bi and it's like no why? 645 00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:13,500 Why do I have to be gay or bi? 646 00:44:14,140 --> 00:44:19,980 To be a sub and it's like oh well, don't you want someone strong and powerful to like take charge and it's like 647 00:44:20,780 --> 00:44:21,980 a woman 648 00:44:21,980 --> 00:44:24,860 Women can be strong and powerful too. Like yeah 649 00:44:24,860 --> 00:44:27,260 It's just something that like when I read it 650 00:44:27,660 --> 00:44:29,660 I was like, yes 651 00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:32,300 Mm-hmm. I don't know 652 00:44:32,700 --> 00:44:34,700 I think that's funny that you get asked that 653 00:44:35,740 --> 00:44:41,340 Yes, that was that was kind of my mom's first question when I came out I was being trans she's like 654 00:44:41,820 --> 00:44:43,820 So you're like gay? 655 00:44:44,540 --> 00:44:46,540 And yeah, I had a similar 656 00:44:47,180 --> 00:44:48,700 No 657 00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:50,700 But sort of 658 00:44:51,260 --> 00:44:53,260 Kind of yeah 659 00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:55,260 Kind of yeah 660 00:44:56,940 --> 00:44:58,780 A little different 661 00:44:58,780 --> 00:45:00,780 Yeah, it's just funny that that's 662 00:45:00,940 --> 00:45:02,940 people's first question 663 00:45:03,020 --> 00:45:04,700 when you 664 00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:07,260 Tell them anything about yourself. That's 665 00:45:08,380 --> 00:45:09,660 You know 666 00:45:09,660 --> 00:45:16,060 I think it's just against the norm. Yeah, I think anything that's against the norm people just they're just not so it's gay 667 00:45:16,700 --> 00:45:20,060 Yeah, they're just not knowledgeable of it. So they're trying to 668 00:45:20,060 --> 00:45:23,740 They're trying to make connections that aren't necessarily there 669 00:45:24,220 --> 00:45:31,900 It's just a little bit of bud light in it. Not a full can like half can. Oh, so you're submissive. So how much bud light do you drink? 670 00:45:33,180 --> 00:45:34,780 All right, so 671 00:45:34,780 --> 00:45:36,780 We covered William Marston 672 00:45:37,180 --> 00:45:39,420 Kind of ending his academic career 673 00:45:40,060 --> 00:45:47,100 Also something that happened in 1931 is that he kind of loses the fight or at least a major 674 00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:49,900 battle on the lie detector front 675 00:45:50,300 --> 00:45:51,500 so 676 00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:53,500 Previously on an episode we covered 677 00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:59,580 William Marston was trying to get his lie detector or the blood pressure cuff used in a 678 00:46:00,460 --> 00:46:02,460 court system 679 00:46:02,460 --> 00:46:09,020 Where it would kind of like replace a jury or actually like help a jury decide who was telling the truth and who wasn't 680 00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:10,940 however in 681 00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:15,340 1931 a person that actually replaced William at Universal Studios 682 00:46:15,340 --> 00:46:17,340 ironically 683 00:46:17,340 --> 00:46:19,340 beat him to a US patent 684 00:46:19,900 --> 00:46:21,900 for the lie detector 685 00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:23,900 And what? 686 00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:25,920 Yes, and he actually was successful 687 00:46:26,620 --> 00:46:30,860 So William Marston, he tried to go from the court system down 688 00:46:31,180 --> 00:46:34,300 This person actually came in and decided to do the reverse 689 00:46:34,860 --> 00:46:40,780 He started selling it to police stations and wanted to go from police stations up 690 00:46:40,780 --> 00:46:47,340 So whereas like judges thought the technology wasn't like far enough along to be used in a courtroom 691 00:46:47,660 --> 00:46:51,500 Police stations were like, oh this could be helpful. They're just using it for the data 692 00:46:52,540 --> 00:46:53,500 Yeah 693 00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:56,620 In in general, right? Right. Okay 694 00:46:57,580 --> 00:47:02,060 But I do believe that this is a this is another heavy blow for William Marston 695 00:47:02,060 --> 00:47:08,540 I mean the two things that he has spent if you will the majority of his life working on the lie detector 696 00:47:08,540 --> 00:47:13,420 The lie detector his academic career. They're they're crumbling away 697 00:47:13,980 --> 00:47:19,740 And some fool at Warner Brothers where he used to work was like i'm gonna do the same thing 698 00:47:20,780 --> 00:47:22,780 This this happens all the time 699 00:47:23,020 --> 00:47:24,700 I mean 700 00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:26,060 It's shitty 701 00:47:26,060 --> 00:47:28,060 But it does happen 702 00:47:28,460 --> 00:47:30,460 for instance 703 00:47:30,620 --> 00:47:36,540 There was a there was a moment in college where a friend of mine had this really great idea for something 704 00:47:36,540 --> 00:47:39,020 Uh, he wrote a college paper about it 705 00:47:40,140 --> 00:47:44,460 And he wasn't shy about sharing his idea and somebody 706 00:47:45,020 --> 00:47:50,140 Took that idea and made a company for it and it's it's a still a company today 707 00:47:50,140 --> 00:47:52,140 So be careful with your ideas 708 00:47:52,140 --> 00:47:57,660 Yes rule one if you have an idea be careful with who you share it with 709 00:47:59,020 --> 00:48:05,020 Or have them sign like an nda that helps ironically the person that stole his idea didn't 710 00:48:05,020 --> 00:48:10,380 Understand the engineering behind it and try to hire my friend to help him with the company 711 00:48:11,020 --> 00:48:15,980 My friend was like no, but he's like no i'm not gonna help you with my idea. Yeah 712 00:48:18,620 --> 00:48:24,540 That's actually how my friend found out that he was making a company for the idea that he had that he had yeah 713 00:48:25,340 --> 00:48:31,420 But again one door closes another one opens up. I believe my friend is very happy with his current career 714 00:48:31,420 --> 00:48:36,860 So it's it kind of panned out. But again if you have a good business idea 715 00:48:38,700 --> 00:48:40,700 Tell us about it 716 00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:44,220 But you should protect you should protect your idea in any way that you can 717 00:48:45,180 --> 00:48:47,580 Yeah, send them to us. All right 718 00:48:48,940 --> 00:48:49,980 So 719 00:48:49,980 --> 00:48:51,980 What are we going to talk about next time? 720 00:48:51,980 --> 00:48:58,140 Next time we're going to kind of cover like the family front who has what children at what time? 721 00:48:58,140 --> 00:49:02,860 We're going to cover the lie so like olive's story 722 00:49:03,740 --> 00:49:04,780 it 723 00:49:04,780 --> 00:49:09,420 Olive is taking care of these children. Some are hers. Some are not hers 724 00:49:09,660 --> 00:49:11,660 So they had to develop a story 725 00:49:12,380 --> 00:49:17,580 A backstory of why she's there with the family who are all these children 726 00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:21,500 The cover-up story we're gonna we didn't get into it this 727 00:49:22,060 --> 00:49:25,340 Episode but we're gonna cover kind of living life as a lie 728 00:49:25,340 --> 00:49:29,340 Something that I believe all three of us have kind of experience in 729 00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:32,300 We're gonna cover the FBI 730 00:49:32,700 --> 00:49:36,220 Getting introduced into the story the FBI gets involved 731 00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:39,100 Yep, FBI. Wow 732 00:49:39,660 --> 00:49:43,260 And then if we have time, we're gonna cover kind of William Marston's 733 00:49:44,060 --> 00:49:48,060 struggle to be a salesman kind of pushing the lie detector 734 00:49:48,860 --> 00:49:51,260 some defeats that he had there and 735 00:49:51,260 --> 00:49:57,580 Finally, we're gonna see the birth of comics. I'm not sure if we're gonna have enough time for the next episode 736 00:49:57,580 --> 00:49:59,580 But we are getting very close 737 00:50:00,060 --> 00:50:04,220 To the birth of comics birth of comic exciting. Yeah 738 00:50:05,180 --> 00:50:07,420 Thanks for tuning in and hanging out with us 739 00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:12,460 We're unnatural to some be sure to also follow us on twitter instagram 740 00:50:13,180 --> 00:50:17,500 And yeah, join our discord and kind of interact and mingle with us more 741 00:50:17,500 --> 00:50:25,020 And donate us stuff on ko-fi so we can get more coffee. Yes, if you enjoyed this episode, please 742 00:50:25,580 --> 00:50:27,580 Give us a coffee on ko-fi 743 00:50:28,220 --> 00:50:29,740 Because we love coffee 744 00:50:29,740 --> 00:50:31,740 We love coffee 745 00:50:32,540 --> 00:50:34,860 Keeps us functioning. Thanks for hanging out 746 00:50:35,420 --> 00:50:40,860 Until next time i'm nicky sapphire and this is jay wheeler reminding you to stay kinky 747 00:50:40,860 --> 00:50:43,740 It's your girl jenny banks and i'll be seeing you tomorrow 748 00:50:43,740 --> 00:50:45,740 You