Episode 8: Shibari - and Poly - and D/s OH MY!

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,500Disclaimer. This podcast features explicit language and discussion of sexual nature.200:00:05,500 --> 00:00:09,020It may contain subjects uncomfortable to some. Please understand that the opinions shared300:00:09,020 --> 00:00:13,500on this podcast are not a representation of any organization or employer the host may400:00:13,500 --> 00:00:16,740be a part of.500:00:16,740 --> 00:00:25,540Are you still recording, Jay?600:00:25,540 --> 00:00:27,340I just hit record.700:00:27,340 --> 00:00:35,380All right. Yeah, this is kind of like our online like can't really make it to the studio,800:00:35,380 --> 00:00:39,100even though Nikki's in the studio version of the podcast.900:00:39,100 --> 00:00:41,700I'm in the studio.1000:00:41,700 --> 00:00:47,020She's in the office. She's in our office. We're all in our offices. But yeah, I think1100:00:47,020 --> 00:00:52,660the podcast has been doing pretty well. It was fun. We I think we had a pretty cool Pride1200:00:52,660 --> 00:00:54,900Month. What are you guys saying?1300:00:54,900 --> 00:00:55,900Yeah.1400:00:55,900 --> 00:01:04,300Like we we we went to Pride Fest, went to the parade. Oh, yeah. We did the whole episode1500:01:04,300 --> 00:01:11,060on pride flags and pride is over and it doesn't exist anymore until next year. Yeah, of course.1600:01:11,060 --> 00:01:15,660Yeah. That's part of the reason why we've been so busy and like episodes haven't been1700:01:15,660 --> 00:01:21,340coming out like weekly. And also we did some other things like.1800:01:21,340 --> 00:01:30,020What was that we did? We went on a Shabari adventure. We went to a Shabari class that1900:01:30,020 --> 00:01:36,780was hosted by Portland Shabari. Who is our instructor? What was his name, Jay?2000:01:36,780 --> 00:01:39,260I want to say Jonathan.2100:01:39,260 --> 00:01:42,180Yes, that's right. It was Jonathan Ryan.2200:01:42,180 --> 00:01:48,700I'm Jonathan Ryan and I have basically I teach workshops in Seattle and my website for Seattle2300:01:48,700 --> 00:01:54,580Shabari dot com. And then my partner, Saffo, and I have a full time studio in Portland,2400:01:54,580 --> 00:01:59,700Portland Shabari salon. And our website for that is Portland Shabari dot com.2500:01:59,700 --> 00:02:04,500Every time I hear his name when he was saying and I was thinking Jack Ryan from freaking2600:02:04,500 --> 00:02:11,700the Amazon show. Yeah. What exactly does State Department supply chain logistician do?2700:02:11,700 --> 00:02:20,460They work behind the death of reports that sounds boring. What is this?2800:02:20,460 --> 00:02:23,740Happy holidays, Dwight. But do not open it till Christmas.2900:02:23,740 --> 00:02:30,260Yeah, I can't watch that show without seeing Jim like from the office. Like, well, because3000:02:30,260 --> 00:02:36,260it is Jim from the office. That's why you see that is that that's who it is. It's what3100:02:36,260 --> 00:02:42,580happens whenever he like he loses Pam to a horrible accident and then he goes secret3200:02:42,580 --> 00:02:46,620agent, right? Secret agent.3300:02:46,620 --> 00:02:51,900Or maybe he just has like a double life and he's like on the weekends like, oh, I'm traveling3400:02:51,900 --> 00:02:55,980for business, but he's actually like, assassinating people.3500:02:55,980 --> 00:03:03,340Well, I don't think he's like, isn't necessarily an assassin in the show. He's more like a3600:03:03,340 --> 00:03:05,500I mean, I don't know.3700:03:05,500 --> 00:03:09,860He's Jack Ryan. He's more like a Jack Ryan. I'm on like the last season right now and3800:03:09,860 --> 00:03:11,860he's definitely killing some people.3900:03:11,860 --> 00:03:19,100Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Spoiler alert. He's killing people.4000:03:19,100 --> 00:03:25,460Well, I mean, doesn't he kill people like every episode? He's he's Jack Ryan. No, he4100:03:25,460 --> 00:03:34,860does love office work. And then paperwork and organizing of office supplies. There's4200:03:34,860 --> 00:03:42,300a whole episode on it. There's a whole like three episodes. Yeah. Well, yeah. Jonathan4300:03:42,300 --> 00:03:50,900Ryan Saffo did a great job teaching us about Shabari. I definitely went away from that4400:03:50,900 --> 00:03:57,460class with knowing some things and also knowing how easy Shabari can be.4500:03:57,460 --> 00:04:05,180Yeah, it's it's you see people's knots and all these like artistic ties that that you4600:04:05,180 --> 00:04:14,220see on models and stuff on the Internet. And it looks complicated. But the instructor,4700:04:14,220 --> 00:04:19,540you know, he was he was able to easily convey that like, look, you just learn these knots4800:04:19,540 --> 00:04:25,380and learn these basic concepts and then you just have fun and then try new things. And4900:04:25,380 --> 00:04:33,020he really harps on safety more than anything. Yeah. So, I mean, you do have to. Well, no,5000:04:33,020 --> 00:04:36,180I'm not saying that it's not important. I'm saying that that's something you really focused5100:04:36,180 --> 00:04:43,700on a lot. Yeah. So that was my fourth Shabari class. And for those those of you that are5200:04:43,700 --> 00:04:48,020out there that are like, oh, I want to get into that, I highly recommend either doing5300:04:48,020 --> 00:04:53,580a lot of research of your own or going to like an in-person class, because if you don't5400:04:53,580 --> 00:04:58,060know what you're doing and you try just to like mimic what you're seeing on like models5500:04:58,060 --> 00:05:05,300or online, you could end up with like nerve damage from nerve compression, which could5600:05:05,300 --> 00:05:10,340last like a few days or it could be permanent. There's two different types of nerves that5700:05:10,340 --> 00:05:16,900you have. You have sensory nerves and motor nerves. So you could either a like, for instance,5800:05:16,900 --> 00:05:23,540like not having sort of feeling in your hands or be not be able to move your hands. So safety5900:05:23,540 --> 00:05:31,060Yeah, safety first for sure, because it could be devastating what things could go wrong6000:05:31,060 --> 00:05:37,540with just simple like rope play or even just trying to you know, make like a rope corset6100:05:37,540 --> 00:05:42,060top, you know, like, like what we're we taught, we're taught how to do I don't know the exact6200:05:42,060 --> 00:05:48,920was a harness a chest harness, you know, something so simple. And so harmless, it seems could6300:05:48,920 --> 00:05:54,420be like devastating in the damage I can do if you're not doing it properly, which is6400:05:54,420 --> 00:05:59,660one thing they really wanted. They covered that a lot, you know, they like made sure6500:05:59,660 --> 00:06:05,460we heard that. Yeah, I think the the main thing that they taught us was different types6600:06:05,460 --> 00:06:12,860of columns. Right? Well, you have like the column tie. Yeah. But like, there's different6700:06:12,860 --> 00:06:19,780types like where you can make the column. Yeah. Like the body is just pretty much like6800:06:19,780 --> 00:06:28,700made up of different columns, if you think about it. Right. Yeah. It's interesting. I6900:06:28,700 --> 00:06:37,340had fun. I had more fun doing the tying and then of being tied up. That's good, because7000:06:37,340 --> 00:06:45,260I liked being tied up. And my attention span wasn't as great with the being in charge of7100:06:45,260 --> 00:06:50,380tying. Yeah, I could tell you're having a hard time. Like, I was like, just put it on7200:06:50,380 --> 00:06:56,380top. Just put it on top on top. And then Jonathan comes by he's like, like this and he puts7300:06:56,380 --> 00:07:02,340on top my wrist. I'm like, my god. Yeah, I got it figured out eventually, though. Yeah,7400:07:02,340 --> 00:07:09,500we'll definitely need you there when we're doing our our Shabari photo shoot. Are you7500:07:09,500 --> 00:07:17,100talking about me? Oh, that's actually something I was going to ask you, Jay. My friend, Aaron's7600:07:17,100 --> 00:07:23,820going to come up and we were talking about doing like a Shabari photo shoot, like on7700:07:23,820 --> 00:07:32,580the railroad, you know, for some spicy photos that, you know, the whole tied up on the railroad7800:07:32,580 --> 00:07:38,300aesthetic, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Damsel in distress. Yeah, definitely.7900:07:38,300 --> 00:07:46,980Damsel in address. Yeah. So that's something that I would obviously like have to like talk8000:07:46,980 --> 00:07:54,820with like Lady L about. But because that is like something that like we do together Shabari.8100:07:54,820 --> 00:08:01,940Yeah, I'll check in with her. Shabari is like one of the things that I'm super, I don't8200:08:01,940 --> 00:08:10,180know, focused on. So like I've gone to four different like Shabari classes with like different8300:08:10,180 --> 00:08:19,100instructors. We have like another class in like two weeks. We have tons of ropes. So8400:08:19,100 --> 00:08:26,540like we have like four 10 feet pieces of rope, four 15 pieces of rope and four 30 feet pieces8500:08:26,540 --> 00:08:34,020of rope. I have about like 600 feet of hemp rope that I'm currently like in the process8600:08:34,020 --> 00:08:40,420of like dying and breaking in nice to make my own kind of like rope bondage slash Shabari8700:08:40,420 --> 00:08:47,460rope. Yeah, that rope that you let us use for the class was actually quite nice. Yeah.8800:08:47,460 --> 00:08:52,700Like I was like using it. I was like, man, I feel really I don't know why I just want8900:08:52,700 --> 00:09:00,540to like stretch it out and just like freaking wrap it around her hard. What else did y'all9000:09:00,540 --> 00:09:11,180enjoy about the Shabari class or classes, Jay? So for me, Shabari and I'm just going9100:09:11,180 --> 00:09:16,900to like probably just like refer to as like rope bondage. But like for me, it is a chance9200:09:16,900 --> 00:09:26,040to be like very intimate with my partner. So, you know, this is like there's no distractions.9300:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,900There's no like Netflix or anything like that. Yeah. You're very like close intimate and9400:09:31,900 --> 00:09:37,100you're doing something that you normally don't do. But I don't know for for my partner and9500:09:37,100 --> 00:09:42,140I like it is becoming so it's something that we kind of are doing like every single weekend9600:09:42,140 --> 00:09:48,860because we were doing like in-person classes. And then we also have a like video on demand9700:09:48,860 --> 00:09:54,580service that we pay like a monthly fee to. And then we have like 600 Shabari videos to9800:09:54,580 --> 00:10:02,340follow. Wow. It's becoming more normal, but it's still something that's like very intimate9900:10:02,340 --> 00:10:09,420to us. It sounds like it's becoming like part of your routine now. So it is part of our10000:10:09,420 --> 00:10:16,180like DS relationship. So for instance, like I have rules to follow. And as long as I like10100:10:16,180 --> 00:10:21,460following get my gold star for each day, then like the reward part is that we do Shabari10200:10:21,460 --> 00:10:30,980on like Saturdays. Oh, sounds like quite a reward. Yeah. I mean, to me it is. Nice. Hey,10300:10:30,980 --> 00:10:36,940we should set you up on that on that little gold. I know. I know. I'd probably get so10400:10:36,940 --> 00:10:45,700much activities done. You would not get any gold stars from me. Whatever. I am. I am a10500:10:45,700 --> 00:10:52,060gold star. So you say you took multiple classes. What's the thing that you found most common10600:10:52,060 --> 00:11:00,100with them? I'm going to assume they all take safety very seriously. That's what I'm assuming.10700:11:00,100 --> 00:11:06,260Now my question for you is that what it was or was it something else? So yes, every class10800:11:06,260 --> 00:11:10,940starts with like a safety talk. Every class starts with a consent talk. That's obviously10900:11:10,940 --> 00:11:17,820a very big concern. I like how in depth our last one, they went into consent because not11000:11:17,820 --> 00:11:27,040everybody grasps that concept. Like not fully like they think, oh, yes means yes and no11100:11:27,040 --> 00:11:34,100means no. And there's like, well, actually, there's a there's a much, you know, longer11200:11:34,100 --> 00:11:41,420list of things. And I think they did a really good job of teaching that to people that might11300:11:41,420 --> 00:11:50,540not grasp that on their first introduction to consent. I agree. And I also think that11400:11:50,540 --> 00:11:57,380I'm not sure the classes are starting to like kind of run together. I'm not sure if it was11500:11:57,380 --> 00:12:02,860that class or if it was the DS class or if it was a different Shibari class. Oh my gosh.11600:12:02,860 --> 00:12:06,980But kind of like bringing up the point that like if you are in like a relationship and11700:12:06,980 --> 00:12:12,700you live together just because you got consent like the night before to do like kinky play11800:12:12,700 --> 00:12:18,180or like tie someone up doesn't mean that you have consent still like when you wake up in11900:12:18,180 --> 00:12:24,860the morning, like you still have to go through that. Yeah. Something that so one thing that12000:12:24,860 --> 00:12:30,760is very common is trying to keep it very simple. So all the classes I've taken was like, hey,12100:12:30,760 --> 00:12:36,020you really only only need to learn like three knots, learn these three knots, you can do12200:12:36,020 --> 00:12:41,980so much with those three knots. And then I would say something that was actually kind12300:12:41,980 --> 00:12:46,980of surprising that was not a part of the class that we went to that I kind of want to actually12400:12:46,980 --> 00:12:53,740cover is the other instructors, they actually said that they're against safe words when12500:12:53,740 --> 00:13:00,620it comes to like rope bondage. Oh, and really interesting. So that's like a huge shock,12600:13:00,620 --> 00:13:04,980that you're like, safe words. What like that's all you ever hear like, oh, what's the safe12700:13:04,980 --> 00:13:10,220words? Interesting. Yeah. Is it because like, some people are like, oh, safe word, I'm never12800:13:10,220 --> 00:13:17,740gonna say that. So I mean, a little bit, like go outside of your comfort zone, kind of thing,12900:13:17,740 --> 00:13:22,080because I know what Shabari and rope play or whatever, from what I've been gathering13000:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,540is that you you, you can't, you don't want to push yourself out beyond those boundaries,13100:13:26,540 --> 00:13:34,860that's when you can get hurt. Well, yes. I think the reason why they were trying to help,13200:13:34,860 --> 00:13:40,300you know, I think the reason why they were trying to get people to stray away from using13300:13:40,300 --> 00:13:48,180safe words is because that's limiting your communication. Okay, instead of just waiting13400:13:48,180 --> 00:13:56,260to hear a safe word for no, or I'm uncomfortable, you should be constantly, you should be consistently13500:13:56,260 --> 00:14:00,900checking in. Yeah, like you should be like, are you? Is this is this feel good? Do you13600:14:00,900 --> 00:14:05,220have all the feeling in your hands still? Right. And that's, that's actually what they13700:14:05,220 --> 00:14:12,060said was, you know, if I'm, if I've been like tying you up for like 10 minutes, and you're,13800:14:12,060 --> 00:14:16,340you're covered in like four different pieces of rope, and you have all these knots all13900:14:16,340 --> 00:14:20,940over you, and you say your safe word. So you're just like, for instance, like red. They're14000:14:20,940 --> 00:14:26,900like that. I have no idea what that means. Like, if you're flogging someone and you say14100:14:26,900 --> 00:14:33,300red, that's a very clear like stop. There's so many shades of red. That doesn't mean anything.14200:14:33,300 --> 00:14:39,060Well, I mean, if if reds you're safe for it.14300:14:39,060 --> 00:14:46,020Could be like, you say your safe word. But in reality, you need those ropes cut off immediately14400:14:46,020 --> 00:14:52,420because you're like, right, I can't even I can barely stand reds. There's like pink.14500:14:52,420 --> 00:15:00,100There's a whole spectrum of danger maroon that can be burgundy. Oh my god, I just watched14600:15:00,100 --> 00:15:04,940Breaking Bad and I literally said the word danger and all I can hear. All I can think14700:15:04,940 --> 00:15:11,660of is I am not in danger. Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot14800:15:11,660 --> 00:15:17,900and you think that of me. No, I am the one who knocks. But I mean, like the whole the14900:15:17,900 --> 00:15:23,420whole thing is that you're supposed to have an open line of communication. And when stuff15000:15:23,420 --> 00:15:28,420starts, for instance, like when you start feeling like numbness in like your hands or15100:15:28,420 --> 00:15:33,760something, your your top as long as they're knowledgeable, they can they can do a few15200:15:33,760 --> 00:15:40,820things to try to like, correct that, for instance, like moving the rope around. But when you15300:15:40,820 --> 00:15:48,980say like, oh, I'm like, that's it. Like, I'm done. That's kind of extreme now. Why? That's15400:15:48,980 --> 00:15:55,820I need to like, get the scissors and start cutting you out. And then also, yeah, I mean,15500:15:55,820 --> 00:16:02,060if you're saying a safe word, and like a rope scene, then to me, that means like you've15600:16:02,060 --> 00:16:06,220probably already have some sort of like nerve damage. And that's very bad. That could have15700:16:06,220 --> 00:16:11,580been pervert like prevented. If you would have like, had an open line of communication15800:16:11,580 --> 00:16:15,620and be like, hey, and there's also like, there's a lot of stuff. So there's, I think there's15900:16:15,620 --> 00:16:20,580a misconception for people that don't do rope bondage that like the bottom doesn't do anything.16000:16:20,580 --> 00:16:24,620They don't say anything, they sit there and they get tied up. But that's not the case.16100:16:24,620 --> 00:16:30,180Like you as a rope bottom, you have to kind of like keep yourself like, okay, like I can16200:16:30,180 --> 00:16:36,060do these movements with my hands, like kind of aware of your body, have that open dialogue.16300:16:36,060 --> 00:16:41,620And that's also something that I've noticed that the Seattle erotic art festival was,16400:16:41,620 --> 00:16:46,660I watched people's practice and then I watched their performance. And in practice, they were16500:16:46,660 --> 00:16:53,300very much like, oh, like that rope is riding up on me. Maybe move it down a little bit.16600:16:53,300 --> 00:16:58,140No, I don't like that. Okay, well, like, let me do a different tie. And then when it came16700:16:58,140 --> 00:17:03,580to the performance, everything went like, very, very quickly and very smoothly. But16800:17:03,580 --> 00:17:09,780and I know I'm like just like going on a huge tangent. Yeah. But and that's the difference16900:17:09,780 --> 00:17:14,500also between practice and a scene. So you should, you should always try to like do as17000:17:14,500 --> 00:17:19,660much practice as you can before you have a scene with somebody so that you kind of learn17100:17:19,660 --> 00:17:23,940each other, learn each other's limits and kind of practice your ties, practice your17200:17:23,940 --> 00:17:29,420knots. If you're a bottom and you're wanting to get into Shabari and role play, practicing17300:17:29,420 --> 00:17:35,180and playing with a top that is new is okay, as long as they know that they're new. So17400:17:35,180 --> 00:17:40,020knowing like your top knowing that there's still a lot for them to learn. And now being17500:17:40,020 --> 00:17:46,500like the super confident cocky like, oh, you're fine. Like, don't worry about it. Yeah. Yeah.17600:17:46,500 --> 00:17:51,180And going going back to like, say for it's maybe in like, when you're specifically doing17700:17:51,180 --> 00:17:58,820like rope bondage, role play, Shabari, what have you, you're doing more of a like, stop,17800:17:58,820 --> 00:18:03,980I need to be cut outward, like, like, get the scissors out. Like, that's the word you17900:18:03,980 --> 00:18:09,700use for whenever you need to be cut out of the ropes, Ruby. And that's the only time18000:18:09,700 --> 00:18:15,940you use that. And otherwise, you're just, you're making sure you're like you said, communication,18100:18:15,940 --> 00:18:20,900I think that that's pretty much key with any kind of play, honestly, whether it be role18200:18:20,900 --> 00:18:29,580play bondage, you know, having normal sex, you know, just a foreplay, like edge communication18300:18:29,580 --> 00:18:34,180is really important because people are all different. Everyone likes different things.18400:18:34,180 --> 00:18:39,460People don't like certain things. And it's really it's, it's not embarrassing to ask.18500:18:39,460 --> 00:18:50,820I think in my personal opinion, it's not embarrassing to ask. Right. Crimson. What? Pink. This shade18600:18:50,820 --> 00:18:58,460of red. Technically. What is it? What was the shade? What was the color called? Pink.18700:18:58,460 --> 00:19:07,860Oh, crimson. Oh, crimson crimson. Ruby. Yeah. But not but not Ruby from the fifth element.18800:19:07,860 --> 00:19:18,100That's the river. We actually got some footage from that Shabari class is how do I start18900:19:18,100 --> 00:19:24,000making we call bands around the body. We were able to capture we we asked the instructors19000:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,420and they said they didn't have a problem with us shooting, you know, as long as we didn't19100:19:28,420 --> 00:19:34,180give away too much of their class. And we actually got to sit down with Jonathan Ryan.19200:19:34,180 --> 00:19:40,340So y'all came to our Shabari 101 class, which is our sort of introduction to the fundamentals19300:19:40,340 --> 00:19:46,960of Japanese style rope bondage. He told us a little bit about his thoughts on Shabari.19400:19:46,960 --> 00:19:52,220So for me, more than anything else, I mean, she already checks a number of boxes for me.19500:19:52,220 --> 00:19:57,060The first is that and the most important I think for me is that I think of rope and I19600:19:57,060 --> 00:20:01,300think I'm sort of alone in this. I think of rope is sort of a powerful form of communication19700:20:01,300 --> 00:20:06,700between two people. So by, you know, using pressure and proximity, breath and rhythm19800:20:06,700 --> 00:20:10,980and touch and those kinds of things, ropes are a really powerful way of connecting with19900:20:10,980 --> 00:20:14,820another human being in a way that doesn't necessarily have to be sexual.20000:20:14,820 --> 00:20:23,380His past experiences, what he enjoys about teaching other people the art and he had a20100:20:23,380 --> 00:20:24,380lot to say.20200:20:24,380 --> 00:20:32,020I talked about the style itself and kind of like the origins of it and just like briefly20300:20:32,020 --> 00:20:39,060and then kind of like what he does in his own in his classes and out of Portland and20400:20:39,060 --> 00:20:46,460just mostly is his background with Shabari and his because he does shows.20500:20:46,460 --> 00:20:47,460Right.20600:20:47,460 --> 00:20:49,620His actual like Shabari shows.20700:20:49,620 --> 00:20:54,020Yeah, he kept talking about how he was a attention whore.20800:20:54,020 --> 00:20:55,020Yeah.20900:20:55,020 --> 00:20:57,740Apparently, he's an attention whore.21000:20:57,740 --> 00:21:03,220Yeah, that's not the only thing we did this weekend, Jay. We went to, I know we told you21100:21:03,220 --> 00:21:07,180about it, but we went to a polyamorous field day.21200:21:07,180 --> 00:21:08,180Yeah.21300:21:08,180 --> 00:21:10,780Which was kind of interesting.21400:21:10,780 --> 00:21:11,780It was interesting.21500:21:11,780 --> 00:21:16,020There was a lot of fun people there and we were all just hanging out.21600:21:16,020 --> 00:21:17,020Yeah.21700:21:17,020 --> 00:21:20,140You know, they had some games that we could play with everybody.21800:21:20,140 --> 00:21:23,980Believe it or not, we weren't all just hooking up in some field.21900:21:23,980 --> 00:21:27,860You know, like people would assume a polyamory group is doing.22000:21:27,860 --> 00:21:30,460All I saw was people fucking everywhere.22100:21:30,460 --> 00:21:32,340Oh, yeah.22200:21:32,340 --> 00:21:37,860Everybody was playing their little kissing games.22300:21:37,860 --> 00:21:42,960They had some like, they had like group coloring at table so you could sit down and like color22400:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,820and chill and chat with new people.22500:21:45,820 --> 00:21:46,820Yeah, it was.22600:21:46,820 --> 00:21:49,060It was pretty cool.22700:21:49,060 --> 00:21:53,380They, we, I talked to those people when we sat down.22800:21:53,380 --> 00:21:57,820Initially, we got invited over to a table that was kind of like empty and they were22900:21:57,820 --> 00:22:04,660coloring Star Wars coloring stuff and I was coloring Grogu and talking to them about the23000:22:04,660 --> 00:22:07,540original polyamorous flag.23100:22:07,540 --> 00:22:13,260You know, the one we talked about and we joked about the Pison.23200:22:13,260 --> 00:22:19,780Yeah, we noticed we noticed the flag there was not one that we covered in our our flag23300:22:19,780 --> 00:22:20,780episode.23400:22:20,780 --> 00:22:22,900There is a new polyamorous flag, though.23500:22:22,900 --> 00:22:24,820I've read about it.23600:22:24,820 --> 00:22:33,540They recently and I mean recently, the community as a whole voted on a new flag because we23700:22:33,540 --> 00:22:40,660were stuck with I think the one before that was literally the pie flag with a big yellow23800:22:40,660 --> 00:22:42,180pie symbol.23900:22:42,180 --> 00:22:49,780Hi, which, you know, we know the reason why behind it because, you know, pride, the pride24000:22:49,780 --> 00:22:52,900flag episode, but right.24100:22:52,900 --> 00:22:53,900It was just cool.24200:22:53,900 --> 00:22:54,900Cool.24300:22:54,900 --> 00:22:59,380Seeing that and seeing a bunch of friendly faces, seeing people talk to strangers for24400:22:59,380 --> 00:23:03,700the first time, getting to know each other, doing arts and crafts, doing stupid field24500:23:03,700 --> 00:23:06,700day activities.24600:23:06,700 --> 00:23:08,140It wasn't stupid.24700:23:08,140 --> 00:23:16,300OK, I haven't done field day activities like that forever, so it's kind of stupid.24800:23:16,300 --> 00:23:18,260You should have been there.24900:23:18,260 --> 00:23:19,260You should have been there, Jay.25000:23:19,260 --> 00:23:21,060It would have been fun.25100:23:21,060 --> 00:23:22,060Next time.25200:23:22,060 --> 00:23:31,940So I was I was not there because I was in Seattle attending a DS class hosted by Miss25300:23:31,940 --> 00:23:34,860Magpie and Return Falls.25400:23:34,860 --> 00:23:42,140So DS, that would be so we have the Game Boy Advance SP.25500:23:42,140 --> 00:23:43,820Oh, no.25600:23:43,820 --> 00:23:46,100After that was the Game Boy DS.25700:23:46,100 --> 00:23:47,100Right.25800:23:47,100 --> 00:23:48,700I saw the switch.25900:23:48,700 --> 00:23:53,300It's I just I have the the one that you plug into the TV.26000:23:53,300 --> 00:23:54,940It's you know, the Game Boy.26100:23:54,940 --> 00:23:59,620And then you plug it into your little TV doc and then you're in.26200:23:59,620 --> 00:24:03,020It turns your TV into a Game Boy now.26300:24:03,020 --> 00:24:07,540So now I have a big screen Game Boy in in my living room.26400:24:07,540 --> 00:24:08,540No.26500:24:08,540 --> 00:24:09,540Oh, gosh.26600:24:09,540 --> 00:24:10,540Oh, wait.26700:24:10,540 --> 00:24:14,460So you mean like a drill sergeant?26800:24:14,460 --> 00:24:17,860No, no, no.26900:24:17,860 --> 00:24:24,860So tell me why you missed our awesome polyamorous field day.27000:24:24,860 --> 00:24:28,380Because I went to an awesome and DS class.27100:24:28,380 --> 00:24:37,740DS is Dom sub, which DS is a it's a.27200:24:37,740 --> 00:24:41,340I'm going to say like it's a relationship style that you can have.27300:24:41,340 --> 00:24:46,020It doesn't have to be like romantic or sexual or anything like that.27400:24:46,020 --> 00:24:47,340But you can have a DS.27500:24:47,340 --> 00:24:48,340You can have an MS.27600:24:48,340 --> 00:24:51,540MS is a master slave.27700:24:51,540 --> 00:24:55,020And you can have a lot of different categories within that.27800:24:55,020 --> 00:25:02,500So a lot of times you'll hear people say like 24 seven DS, which means like there's no break.27900:25:02,500 --> 00:25:04,700Like it's not kind of role play to them.28000:25:04,700 --> 00:25:08,220It is 24 hours of the day, seven days a week.28100:25:08,220 --> 00:25:10,980Oh, I've actually met a couple like that.28200:25:10,980 --> 00:25:13,540But yeah, it was it was a really great class.28300:25:13,540 --> 00:25:18,620I think I'm going to like cover cover some of the topics and like a separate episode28400:25:18,620 --> 00:25:19,620with myself.28500:25:19,620 --> 00:25:24,380But basically, I mean, I don't know, like what kind of what kind of questions do you28600:25:24,380 --> 00:25:25,700guys have about DS?28700:25:25,700 --> 00:25:32,860Because that's something that I do like practice with with my.28800:25:32,860 --> 00:25:36,100Her first, but I have a really important question after my hands up.28900:25:36,100 --> 00:25:37,100OK, Nikki.29000:25:37,100 --> 00:25:38,100All right.29100:25:38,100 --> 00:25:42,500So how does your wife feel about all of that?29200:25:42,500 --> 00:25:47,580So my wife is my dog, like my D, my owner, my D.29300:25:47,580 --> 00:25:48,580Right.29400:25:48,580 --> 00:25:55,740But with your with your now DS relationship, like how does she like?29500:25:55,740 --> 00:25:58,640How does she feel about that?29600:25:58,640 --> 00:26:05,700So we we've had a DS relationship for a while, like we had a contract that we kind of established29700:26:05,700 --> 00:26:09,260about a year ago.29800:26:09,260 --> 00:26:13,180And that's like that's one thing about like DS relationships or just like BDSM or Kink29900:26:13,180 --> 00:26:17,820and in general is that it's not like the journey that you get there.30000:26:17,820 --> 00:26:21,340It's not really about like, you know, oh, I want this like now.30100:26:21,340 --> 00:26:26,300It's more about like the journey of two people kind of evolving over time.30200:26:26,300 --> 00:26:32,440So we we took the the DS class on Sunday.30300:26:32,440 --> 00:26:38,580So now this week we are like kind of in open negotiations for our contract.30400:26:38,580 --> 00:26:43,980We're taking like the things that we learned and kind of modifying our contract a lot to30500:26:43,980 --> 00:26:48,940answer your question of how Lady L feels about that.30600:26:48,940 --> 00:26:51,140Yeah, she's very excited.30700:26:51,140 --> 00:26:55,020So she took notes during the class.30800:26:55,020 --> 00:26:56,260Lady L.30900:26:56,260 --> 00:26:59,540Lady L.31000:26:59,540 --> 00:27:04,780As soon as we stepped out of the class, I got like a message and it was like just bullet31100:27:04,780 --> 00:27:11,380points of like things that she wanted to talk about specifically to the like our DS relationship.31200:27:11,380 --> 00:27:17,660So for instance, you know, punishment and reward structure.31300:27:17,660 --> 00:27:18,860Wow.31400:27:18,860 --> 00:27:19,860Stuff like that.31500:27:19,860 --> 00:27:21,300Oh my God.31600:27:21,300 --> 00:27:26,780It's crazy because I like literally when you first got here and you talked about that,31700:27:26,780 --> 00:27:32,700it's it's it's you talk about like the changes and progression in your relationship.31800:27:32,700 --> 00:27:38,220I've seen it like I can I can say both of you were nervous about partaking in any of31900:27:38,220 --> 00:27:41,100this, especially Lady Alice.32000:27:41,100 --> 00:27:43,460We're calling her or I don't know.32100:27:43,460 --> 00:27:44,460Is that yeah.32200:27:44,460 --> 00:27:45,460Is that your name for her?32300:27:45,460 --> 00:27:46,460Yeah.32400:27:46,460 --> 00:27:52,420And you know, I just I it's blossoming into something beautiful and it's great.32500:27:52,420 --> 00:27:58,180Also my question was, was it Metroid Prime, the first person shooter, the first one to32600:27:58,180 --> 00:28:01,100come out for the DS back in the.32700:28:01,100 --> 00:28:04,220I think that sounds right.32800:28:04,220 --> 00:28:11,020I'm just saying I had that game and it had you use the fucking like little stylus as32900:28:11,020 --> 00:28:13,500an aimer and it was trash.33000:28:13,500 --> 00:28:15,300Just letting you know is really bad.33100:28:15,300 --> 00:28:18,260I mostly just played Pokemon on mine.33200:28:18,260 --> 00:28:19,260Real question, though.33300:28:19,260 --> 00:28:20,820Real question, though.33400:28:20,820 --> 00:28:24,060So you said there's MSDS and stuff like that.33500:28:24,060 --> 00:28:29,640Are you going to cover more of these dynamics in your little discussion that you're going33600:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,620to have with our audience?33700:28:31,620 --> 00:28:32,620Yes.33800:28:32,620 --> 00:28:34,740So I do plan.33900:28:34,740 --> 00:28:39,260So something that we've talked on this podcast about is us breaking off and doing some of34000:28:39,260 --> 00:28:41,340our own videos like one on one.34100:28:41,340 --> 00:28:46,620So like, for instance, like Nikki and Jenny, like kind of having an episode where system34200:28:46,620 --> 00:28:54,720talking about like polyamory, them talking about, you know, their their story about transitioning34300:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,340and stuff like that.34400:28:56,340 --> 00:29:00,940And then like me just having kind of like deep dives into like what I'm learning about34500:29:00,940 --> 00:29:06,060like kink BDSM and all of the above.34600:29:06,060 --> 00:29:09,180So yeah, yeah, it's good.34700:29:09,180 --> 00:29:10,260I think it's going to be good.34800:29:10,260 --> 00:29:11,420I do.34900:29:11,420 --> 00:29:15,900I do plan on like having having an episode.35000:29:15,900 --> 00:29:22,780It's really kind of hard because when you talk about like, I mean, just in general,35100:29:22,780 --> 00:29:30,580system kink DSM, it really means something different to everyone because, for instance,35200:29:30,580 --> 00:29:38,060like us, we we look at the things that we want to achieve, like our goals.35300:29:38,060 --> 00:29:41,180And so, like, for instance, like me, I'm I'm a sub.35400:29:41,180 --> 00:29:44,220I have certain goals that I want to achieve.35500:29:44,220 --> 00:29:46,940Yeah, that makes sense.35600:29:46,940 --> 00:29:53,620And our relationship is kind of built around like pretty much holding me accountable to35700:29:53,620 --> 00:29:54,820achieve those goals.35800:29:54,820 --> 00:30:01,500So I'm studying for a cert through for like work.35900:30:01,500 --> 00:30:02,780That's very important.36000:30:02,780 --> 00:30:09,420However, I can often get like caught up in like podcasts and video games and a lot of36100:30:09,420 --> 00:30:10,420other things.36200:30:10,420 --> 00:30:11,420What?36300:30:11,420 --> 00:30:12,420No, no.36400:30:12,420 --> 00:30:13,420What are you talking about?36500:30:13,420 --> 00:30:16,420Wait, we have a podcast?36600:30:16,420 --> 00:30:18,540Yes, we do.36700:30:18,540 --> 00:30:19,540Wow.36800:30:19,540 --> 00:30:21,380I should really watch it sometime.36900:30:21,380 --> 00:30:22,380You should.37000:30:22,380 --> 00:30:23,380You should check it out.37100:30:23,380 --> 00:30:25,860Definitely check out our website, unnaturalism.com.37200:30:25,860 --> 00:30:26,860All of you.37300:30:26,860 --> 00:30:28,860Every single one of you.37400:30:28,860 --> 00:30:29,860Pretty please.37500:30:29,860 --> 00:30:33,900But but yeah, she basically like holds me accountable.37600:30:33,900 --> 00:30:39,020And I think that's like the beautiful thing about like DS is that when you have like two37700:30:39,020 --> 00:30:44,140people like striving to like become better and like help each other like meet their goals37800:30:44,140 --> 00:30:46,940and stuff like that, I think I think that's really great.37900:30:46,940 --> 00:30:52,780I think just in society in general, a lot of people don't understand that kind of relationship38000:30:52,780 --> 00:30:53,780structure.38100:30:53,780 --> 00:31:01,260So they you know, you'll hear a lot of like stories like Army Hammer, that guy and 5038200:31:01,260 --> 00:31:04,380shades of gray and stuff like that.38300:31:04,380 --> 00:31:07,620We have to bring his name up at least once.38400:31:07,620 --> 00:31:09,820Once every episode we get one.38500:31:09,820 --> 00:31:11,980No, we have not brought him up in a while.38600:31:11,980 --> 00:31:12,980That's fair.38700:31:12,980 --> 00:31:13,980We have not.38800:31:13,980 --> 00:31:15,100We have not brought him up in a while.38900:31:15,100 --> 00:31:22,540And and he's a prime example of like what what not to do can go wrong with not knowing39000:31:22,540 --> 00:31:24,500about safe play.39100:31:24,500 --> 00:31:31,180Oh, it's he did something he didn't know he he chooses not to his partners didn't know.39200:31:31,180 --> 00:31:32,180Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.39300:31:32,180 --> 00:31:33,180Didn't know anything.39400:31:33,180 --> 00:31:36,460They're new to they're mostly new to BDSM and all that stuff.39500:31:36,460 --> 00:31:38,940And he just abused that.39600:31:38,940 --> 00:31:44,440And that's why like these classes are great, because they encourage safe play.39700:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,100They encourage consent.39800:31:46,100 --> 00:31:49,100They encourage being safe.39900:31:49,100 --> 00:31:56,660And that's a wonderful thing, because sex should be sexy, but it also should be safe.40000:31:56,660 --> 00:31:59,540Yeah, definitely.40100:31:59,540 --> 00:32:02,660Jenny only feels sexy when she's safe.40200:32:02,660 --> 00:32:03,660Yeah.40300:32:03,660 --> 00:32:06,060And also, yeah.40400:32:06,060 --> 00:32:08,500See I feel sexy when I'm not safe, though.40500:32:08,500 --> 00:32:14,060And about that fear factor, you know, we got to figure out we got to figure out our situation,40600:32:14,060 --> 00:32:16,740babe, our MSDS situation.40700:32:16,740 --> 00:32:23,940I think you're more like a Gameboy color and I'm more like a GameCube.40800:32:23,940 --> 00:32:28,100Oh, like the the RE four.40900:32:28,100 --> 00:32:32,740Yeah, I spent so much time on that GameCube.41000:32:32,740 --> 00:32:33,740Oh, boy.41100:32:33,740 --> 00:32:34,740Yeah.41200:32:34,740 --> 00:32:35,740Oh, boy.41300:32:35,740 --> 00:32:41,340Well, that's kind of what we've been up to, because I know everyone's probably been wondering.41400:32:41,340 --> 00:32:44,900We've been less active in discord.41500:32:44,900 --> 00:32:50,380We haven't been posting as much reels, photos and stuff.41600:32:50,380 --> 00:32:54,620We've been really busy actually collecting content for the podcast.41700:32:54,620 --> 00:32:55,620Oh, yeah.41800:32:55,620 --> 00:32:56,620Oh, my goodness.41900:32:56,620 --> 00:32:57,620That and family visiting.42000:32:57,620 --> 00:32:58,620Yeah.42100:32:58,620 --> 00:32:59,620Yeah.42200:32:59,620 --> 00:33:02,460For us, family, we had family visit and then I got sick.42300:33:02,460 --> 00:33:07,420Our mom flew out here to come hang out with us and spend time.42400:33:07,420 --> 00:33:09,860And oh, my gosh, she made so much food.42500:33:09,860 --> 00:33:12,580Oh, so much food.42600:33:12,580 --> 00:33:14,060I will miss her cooking.42700:33:14,060 --> 00:33:15,740It's delicious.42800:33:15,740 --> 00:33:17,460Your cooking is great, babe.42900:33:17,460 --> 00:33:19,300But I love my mom's cooking.43000:33:19,300 --> 00:33:20,300Whatever.43100:33:20,300 --> 00:33:22,620She's just she's got a special place in my heart.43200:33:22,620 --> 00:33:25,860She knows she knows not saying you don't know what you're doing.43300:33:25,860 --> 00:33:31,460Just my mom, she's got a little, little something she puts in there and her potatoes.43400:33:31,460 --> 00:33:33,500So that's what we've been up to.43500:33:33,500 --> 00:33:36,660I know you miss us.43600:33:36,660 --> 00:33:41,060Also please check out our website, unnatural to some dot com.43700:33:41,060 --> 00:33:43,420You can find all of our stuff.43800:33:43,420 --> 00:33:50,020There are the pot, the links to all of our social media on our podcasts where the podcast43900:33:50,020 --> 00:33:51,020is uploaded.44000:33:51,020 --> 00:33:57,180The YouTube videos also, Jenny and Nicky's like personal accounts is linked.44100:33:57,180 --> 00:34:07,540So little secret, if you follow the website, you will get a sneak peek of every single44200:34:07,540 --> 00:34:11,020YouTube video before anyone else does.44300:34:11,020 --> 00:34:13,780Oh, snap.44400:34:13,780 --> 00:34:21,940And the reason is, I will just say very quickly is when I upload the video, there's still44500:34:21,940 --> 00:34:24,020a lot of stuff that I have to do.44600:34:24,020 --> 00:34:29,900So like the timestamps, the subtitles, I have to wait for the video to process that is saved44700:34:29,900 --> 00:34:32,700as a private video.44800:34:32,700 --> 00:34:35,820Only people with that link can view that video.44900:34:35,820 --> 00:34:41,540Our website uses that link automatically, so it will upload to the website and you'll45000:34:41,540 --> 00:34:43,300get a sneak peek.45100:34:43,300 --> 00:34:49,180Maybe I can't promise anything, but maybe a few hours before the actual video drops,45200:34:49,180 --> 00:34:51,500you'll get to see it before anyone else does.45300:34:51,500 --> 00:34:56,460So make sure to go check out on naturalsum.com for that sneak peek.45400:34:56,460 --> 00:34:57,460Sneak peek.45500:34:57,460 --> 00:34:58,460Yeah.45600:34:58,460 --> 00:35:04,660Also, don't forget to buy us a coffee on Ko-fi because some of us have student loans to pay45700:35:04,660 --> 00:35:05,660back.45800:35:05,660 --> 00:35:08,660It's Jay Wheeler, Staking.45900:35:08,660 --> 00:35:10,660Some of us are just thirsty.46000:35:10,660 --> 00:35:12,940Thirsty, thirsty girls.46100:35:12,940 --> 00:35:15,340I'm Nicky Sapphire.46200:35:15,340 --> 00:35:18,220Thanks for hanging out with us.46300:35:18,220 --> 00:35:19,220Until next time.46400:35:19,220 --> 00:35:22,860It's your girl Jenny Baines and I'm signing off.46500:35:22,860 --> 00:35:24,340See ya.46600:35:24,340 --> 00:35:25,340Bye.46700:35:25,340 --> 00:35:52,340Alright, we're done.